hmm… everything about norway is true… incl the Hell part… cool! btw, the national railway has a station in Hell – and I have a ticket: Roundtrip to Hell with a 3 day stay :)
Hell og lykke. (means “good luck”(directly translated it means “luck and happines”)).
85% of Norwegians are members of a church, yet most of them still describe themselves as atheists/agnostics. In Norway, being member of a church is more of a tradional thing, than it is religious.
Who cares, economic success, unemployment etc. is not a case for atheism, nor is old testament genocide a case for religion, the reality is that fervent religious belief makes no sense unless you’re unfortunate enough to have been indoctrinated or are happy to live in comfortable delusion (at least I know I won’t burn in hell, type comfort!). Look at it this wayIf Norway was as nice as I’m sure it is, but 99% of the population were good churchgoers, I still wouldn’t believe in god!! The cartoon is good though!!!
Citizens of Norway are automatically considered and registered as members of the state church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway, unless they explicitly note otherwise. This hardly constitutes 85% religiosity.
Well, Norway can be used as a model (of sorts) to support the argument some Atheists try to make – people and societies can be ethical and “good” and productive without religion. I find it compelling and the cartoon sums it up nicely.
The teachings of the brotherhood of man founded on the fatherhood of God is by far better then the alternatives.
Brotherhood constitutes a fact of relationship between every person. No person can escape the benefits or the penalties that may come as a result of relationship to other persons. The part profits or suffers in measure with the whole. The good effort of each man benefits all men; the error or evil of each man augments the tribulation of all men. As moves the part, so moves the whole. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part. The relative velocities of part and whole determine whether the part is retarded by the inertia of the whole or is carried forward by the momentum of the cosmic brotherhood.
This truth can be accepted or rejected the one thing we all have is the power to choose.
I have news for the athiests out there … the MAJORITY of industrialized countries are Athiest, and the MAJORITY of these countries are more currupt than any others. Actually, now that I think of it, is there even one country in the world that is run by Christians? I don’t think so … but one thing is for sure … It’s sure isn’t AMERICA! Remember people, just because someone says they are Christian, that does NOT make it so. Infact the Bible says you will know them (Christians) by their fruits, (Fruits of the Spirit) so doesn’t that mean that those who are hypocrites to Biblical standards are not genuine Christians?
Seriously … even those who worship Satan in the open aren’t ignorant enough to claim there is no God, unfortunatly they just hate Him like most of the world, which of course there is NO justifiable reason. Now, don’t come on here and tell me that there’s no reason to Love God either, because you have more than enough evidence throughout history to show the mercy and compassion of God, and the exact opposite is shown for the one who rules this earth in whom the Athiests serve unknowingly … Satan. (Sad but true)
Alright I admit I’m getting preachy and off topic, but this seemed like a good time to get that off my chest.
I do however find it funny that the Athiest movement is the one group who is always whining about how they are persecuted about their beliefs. Have Athiests been killed for their belief around the world on a Daily Basis? Have they been continually persecuted throughout history like the Jews and Christians? Have they ever had to give their life for what they believe?
Why am I expected to have sympathy for a group of people who are supposed to believe in nothing ANYWAY! Alright, you believe in nothing … we get it!
So the US isn’t run by “your kid of christians”? As if that make any difference to the rest of us? And then you accuse others of whining and playing the persecution card while, at the same time, doing it yourself.
“the MAJORITY of industrialized countries are Athiest, and the MAJORITY of these countries are more currupt than any others”
This is untrue both by the percentage of the populations of those countries that identify as religious in censuses and by the number of those countries with explicit or implicit state religions.
You also haven’t seen how corrupt non-industrialized countries in the global south can get. Or churches.
And who mentioned corruption anyway?
“I do however find it funny that the Athiest movement is the one group who is always whining about how they are persecuted about their beliefs. Have Athiests been killed for their belief around the world on a Daily Basis? Have they been continually persecuted throughout history like the Jews and Christians? Have they ever had to give their life for what they believe?”
If atheists are the only group who complain about being persecuted then why are you complaining about the religious being persecuted? That makes no sense.
Atheists are killed for their political beliefs the same as anyone else. They have been persecuted by Christians and burnt at the stake as heretics. And they have had to give their lives for what they believe in the same as anyone else in any war or conflict you care to mention.
“Why am I expected to have sympathy for a group of people who are supposed to believe in nothing ANYWAY! ”
Because you are a good Christian and have read what is written of Christ’s teachings regarding charity, sympathy and forgiveness?
Or failing that because you have the same evolved capacity for sympathy as everyone else and shouldn’t let your religiously-inspired hatred take it away part of what it means to be human from you?
James Smith João Pessoa, Brazil Monday March 29th, 2010 @ 1:39pm
You are as wrong as it’s possible to be. Atheist are discriminated against on a daily basis around the world. They have been, and are being tortured and killed for their atheism. Perhaps you may have heard of the inquisition? Personally, I have been ostracized, threatened, and physically attacked for expressing my opinion. All by “good christians” of course.
Christians are the ones who are constantly whining about being persecuted. Even though they control almost everything and manage to get their sick beliefs enacted into law to force others to adhere to their hate-filled theology.
But distortions, ignoring blatant facts, and even lying have been the theist’s methodology forever. Nice to see you are still personally using those tactics.
Yes they have died, “heretics” persecuted by the church, By the way, Christians persecuted, hmmm… Don’t be hypocritical, they have killed more people than anyone ever. You are ridiculous and your book full of hate and confusing moral pretext, that has a few passages about forgiveness which you don’t obviously adhere to… is why you are supposed to have sympathy assface. I tell you the truth, I believe there is no god (that’s why I don’t capitalize it, heehee)but I still feel sorry for all you ignorant Jeebus zombies as well as Islamists and Jewey Jews… You are all wrong, and your trying to take the rest of us down with you into the abyss of your angry Apocalyptic Jihad Rapture future that you all cant wait to get to!!! Stop F-ing with the rest of us you ignoramus!
I have a rock. It is an anti-tiger rock. I don’t see any tigers around, so my rock must be working!
None of what you mentioned can be showed to be causal. In fact, I’m sure I can find several secular states in Africa that will demonstrate the opposite of what you propose. In fact, the Democratic Republic of the Congo is a secular state and probably the worst country in the world to live in. So what? Specious.
@Frank: Congo is heavily religious. Virtually the entire population is Christian, those that aren’t are members of a different religion. I’m really not sure were you get your claims that Congo is a ‘secular state’, unless you mean that it’s not a theocracy.
A good friend of mine is an ex-paratrooper from the 82nd Airborne. His wife is half Norwegian, and so still a Norse citizen. When they started having children, and our government started going to hell, they decided to move to Oslo with the kids. They are extremely happy about their decision, love Norway and the rational, friendly, well-educated people there, and the non-insane government gets high marks, too. Although they miss the States once in awhile, whenever I talk to them they remind me that it’s a great country and that their door is always open. Hmmm….why do I still live in the U.S.?
It’s far more likely that their peacefulness comes from the fact that there is tremendous economic prosperity in Norway, which reduces the number of poor/disenfranchised people, which in turn reduces the desire for armed conflict to change the status quo.
You know why they’re so prosperous? Oil. They have a lot of it, and every Norwegian national gets a share of the take. When you’re talking about large populations — not individuals — peace doesn’t have anything to do with how religious people are. It has to do with how well the wants and needs of the people are being satisfied.
All I have to say is that I will pray for everyone of you. I will pray for your eyes to be opened to the truth of the Gospel of Jesus who loves everyone of you. He loved you so much that he stretched out his arms and died for you!
James Smith João Pessoa, Brazil Monday March 29th, 2010 @ 1:45pm
I am offended by your comment. What if I were a satanist and said I was going to “pray to lord satan for you to see the light and begin worshiping the true ruler of the universe”? Would that be OK with you?
You are an incredibly arrogant, obnoxious human being. Luck for you there is no hell or you would surely be there now.
Incidentally, jesus never existed. You have been blinded by the brainwashing you have received by the religious reich. Show me even one contemporary account of jesus. Then look up Mithra. See where the jesus myth was stolen from? As usual, christians a fools, liars, or hypocrites. Usually, they are all three at the same time.
I can tell you exactly what the strip is supposed to mean because I drew it. The intention of the comic is not to imply that a less religious society is necessarily a better one, but rather that the claims made constantly by Bill O’Reily, Pat Robertson and every conservative politician ever, that it’s the secularization of America that’s to blame for our problems is just silly and demonstrably false.
If it were the lack of religiosity that caused poverty, suffering, immorality and crime, then places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Japan would be in ruins by now. The fact that those places are doing better than America in many ways is a huge problem for the people posing the argument. And I think that’s funny. I’m not trying to imply causality, just pointing out lack of correlation.
A very good point, Chaz, unfortunately it is rational and not emotional. You’re just not pushing the right buttons and let’s face it, that is what all those arguments against a secular America are all about. The religious backers speak in sound bites and fear mongering phrases. All the talk about religion takes the focus away from the real issue, individual spirituality.
Even atheists have spiritual beliefs, I would even go so far as to say they are kind of spiritual at times. I am sure the Norwegians must be very level headed people endowed with a the ability to think rationally. Maybe they even take inividual responsibility seriously and therefore have thought about the issue of atheism and religion and have come to their own conclusions. In America we like strong leaders, leaders who aren’t afraid to lead from the back of the pack especially when the pack are lemmings and getting ever closer to the cliff.
So I am afraid what the Norwegians have just wouldn’t work here. IN the U.S., strong religious leaders who can control the little lemmings are in vogue and not likely to go away soon. Still, keep up the good work! We will eventually find inner peace and finally our own undiscovered self, one person at a time.
Im an athiest Norwegian and I can tell you there is a whole lot more peace in my spirit simply because I DIDNT VOTE FOR AN ASSHOLE THAT JUSTIFIES THE KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS. You christians that voted for Bush, if your doctrine is correct, are all as responsible for the death and suffering in Iraq as he is. I know there is a Republican party in hell for you!!
Ruud is a douche Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 10:23am
Ruud you are a dumb shit. Get your facts right. The killing of innocents… We are killing people who would be slaughtering their own people if we didn’t happen to show up.
You ignorant fuk, this so-called save iraq war has taken twice the lives than that during Saddam’s rule. 600,000 and counting……you and your brainless brothers are a bunch of morons. what are you,about 16 years old? uneducated. uninformed. “well, my pastor told me so it must be true”. hey dumb ass(and the rest of your crew of stupid) has Bush done ANYTHING to reverse RoevWade? You idiots!!! bush used you all to get his murderous ass elected. who’s the real douche bags now?
A comment on the apparent paradox: “70 percent of norwegians are atheist” and yet “85 percent of norways population is member of a church”.
There might just be a connection between these two facts, as the chuch with pretty much all those members happens to be the state sponsored national church (in previous times used by the government as a convenient tool of control). Now, being securely funded by the state THIS CHURCH DOESN’T NEED TO DO ANY EFFECTIVE ADVERTICING. There’s no need to fool the individual believers out of their money, hence no need for cheap rhetorical tricks (puching the right buttons, painting graphic images of hell, damnation, the rapture and the like…) – and as result we norwegians are blessed with a rather toothless (and boring) church, increasingly receding into the realms of irrelevance . There’s obviously other explanations as well, but I think that there’s a good chance that the lack of any serious economic incentives for fooling the crowds have done a lot of good for norwegian society. In contrast, the free enterprice american religious corporations fighting for the soul of anyone with a wallet provide a blossoming market for the most effective emotional button pushers (or con-men) out there… I hate to admit it, but state religion might not be a bad idea in all instances. Yes, I’m terrified of theocracies like Iran, but I think the Nordic states provide interesting examples of state religion actually breeding non-belief…
I love Norwegians Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 7:01pm
Atheists have been, and are being persecuted, where you are getting these facts, is beyond me. But late Roman Empire, it was considered a capital crime. Hitler, banned free thought organizations, a quote, “We have . . . undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” In Iran, Atheists are not considered citizens, they aren’t granted basic rights. Have fun Bible thumper..
quote from the great Brittain during WWII “The norwegian fleet is worth more for the allied the a million soldiers would have” The fleet had 1000 ships and was at most arround 40 % of all oil carried to the britts came from Norway.
Jeffrey Higginbotham: Your comment is so stupid it honestly has to be a joke, therefore I will take it as one. Ahahahahaha. You clown shoe, you crack me up.
that one guy from that one movie... you know... Saturday November 10th, 2007 @ 8:40pm
i didn’t read everything, but so far… being pagan, (and not active in even that) i think that it’s a good comic strip. Torgeir has a very good point. having a state religion, has worked for them, while in the past, it becomes corrupted and such. look at Iraq and such. they take the Qur’an and make it their law. the united states, has freedom of religion, being that you can worship as you choose to, and not have to worry about being persecuted. being only 20, i don’t know a whole lot yet. my experience though, and seeing how the religions here work, it seems to me that it’s a race for members and wealth.
when the end comes, if there is an end, it will probably be quick, and very boring. till then, catholics, mormons, and other christians will still be passing the collection plate, asking for titheing, and such. atheists have the same morals and standards as religious people. be nice, don’t kill people, ect. the only difference is, if you’re bad, or a dick to an old lady, you don’t have someone telling you you’re going to burn for all eternity. america is not the greatest country in the world. our president is an idiot and our education is horrible. recently in UT, there was a referendum to give money to families that want to put there children into charter schools. they would recieve a better education there, but public schools don’t like it.
if our govt. would spend more money on education, and reforming our economy, instead of picking fights on countrys that didn’t have anything to do with destryoing the world trade center… (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, afganastan…) then we wouldn’t have had more people die. the US has had more friendly fire deaths then from the enemy… who cares if they have wmds… their countries don’t have the technology to send them that far. the most they would do is attack the jews and then get totally raped in return. (don’t fuck with the jews. they will kill you :P) being to much of one thing is bad. if you think i’m a sinner and will burn for saying this, then fuck you. if you think that i don’t know one thing about atheisim and shouldn’t say anything. fuck you. in a world where you can talk to anyone, anywhere, why worry about beliefs. people are people and if a country is doing good with a state religion that no one goes to, then cool. the russians are like that too.. just be alive. be nice to people, don’t persecute people if they aren’t hurting anyone, and the ones that do hurt people, tell them to knock it the fuck off, and leave it at that. they’ll get theirs.
“You know why they’re so prosperous? Oil. They have a lot of it, and every Norwegian national gets a share of the take.”
Denmark, Sweden, and Finland, has no oil. And yet, theese nations are just as peacefull, educated and “good” as Norway. So, no it has nothing to do with how much oil (money) the state has. If that was the case, Iraq would be one of the best places in the world to live, but I’ve heard that it’s not.
I’m an atheist and very pro-atheist, but I’m a bit ashamed of the duplicity I discovered in this comic. As a skeptic, I never accept an important claim without external citation or verification. Upon further investigation, I discovered that the “70%” statistic is a bit deceptive, excluding only those who believe in a personal diety. The real stats are as follows:
* 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that “they believe there is a God”.
* 47% answered that “they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force”.
* 17% answered that “they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force”.
Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy_in_Norway#Religion_in_Norway_today
“In 2005, a survey conducted by Gallup International in sixty-five countries indicated that Norway was the least religious country in Western Europe, with 29% counting themselves as believing in a church or deity, 26% as being atheists, and 45% not being entirely certain.” Wikipedia says. I guess “not entirely certain” is sort of agnostic. I’d say more like 75 % of people in younger generations are completely atheists though.
Repeating what Brandon said:
Upon further investigation, I discovered that the “70%†statistic is a bit deceptive, excluding only those who believe in a personal diety. The real stats are as follows:
* 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that “they believe there is a Godâ€.
* 47% answered that “they believe there is some sort of spirit or life forceâ€.
* 17% answered that “they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life forceâ€.
Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy_in_Norway#Religion_in_Norway_today
Angry Atheist Thursday November 15th, 2007 @ 1:13pm
There is an atheist who is walking out in the woods thinking evolution caused all of the beauty of the forest. Well along comes this 7 foot tall grizzly bear. The atheist turned around and saw the grizzly and screamed a bloodcurdling scream and runs up the hill. Then the grizzly starts chasing and closing in on him. Well just as the bear got ready to kill him he screamed save me God! Time stopped and a bright light shown in the sky and god said why should I save you after all these years of you teaching others I’m not real? The atheist replied, Lord it would be a hypocrisy to ask to be a Christian now but could you at least make the bear Christian? The Lord said O.K. Time started again and the bear took its paw away and put both together and said”Lord thank you for this food I am about to receive Amen.
Look, I understand the idea of debate. The very essence of argument requires at least two sides to make point and counterpoint, yes… however, there is a difference between arguing and quarreling. This particular subject is a very interesting one to me and, well at very least, all of you. But the point of discussion here should not be to bash the hell out of the last comment, cuz let’s be honest, no one learns shit that way, they just sit in their towers firing back and forth with ammunition that will never break the skin. Opinions are like assholes, everybody’s got one, but there’s a very delicate way that one must go about presenting it if they want anybody to give it even a millisecond of consideration. And I think, most of us wish for that to happen, I mean we are commenting on this, are we not? If we’re going to comment on it, let’s choose our words carefully. You and I and the next girl and guy have an innate yearning for learning, and we can accomplish this far more efficiently if we argue like the rational human beings we are, in a civilized manner, rather than throwing our ideology around and hoping it sticks. I’d say it’s pretty goddamn obvious that doesn’t work. Forget about titles …. atheist, christian, demonic satan worshiper, I don’t give a shit what you call yourself or what you call me – I’m a person, you are a person. I don’t know about you but I find that when you leave it at that, you tend to learn a lot more, and with much less trouble. And one more thing. This may sound like just a bunch of hippie mumbo-jumbo, but like I said before, don’t fuckin label me, cuz whatever category you’ve put me in, you’re wrong. I’m in a category of my own , and mine only, just like each of you. Your opinion of Norway and religion is equally as important as mine. Let’s keep that in mind, and mind each others keeps. This is logic, this is life.
Clearly you haven’t read up on world history before making that post. Atheists (Galileo, etc) have been prosecuted throughout the ages because of religious fanatics that used Christianity as a political tool to control the masses.
It constrained the evolution of science and rationality. Not to mention human evolution as a whole.
What is strange however is that people who believe in fairy tales and imaginary things like Dragons are called crazy. Yet people who believe in this ‘God’ which for all accounts and purposes has no proof that it’s actually real, are accepted by society.
The very fact that Norway has those statistics, while remaining predominantly atheistic, goes to show that religion has no more purpose in contemporary society. It’s a thing of the past that should never have existed to begin with.
However unfortunately as mentioned before, it’s a great political tool.
I find all of this very interesting. All to oftin have I seen religions jump on everyones back for not following their faiths and beliefs. I find it tiering and quite annoying. But to be honest, I really don’t care what they think, or do. I am an Agnostic and I have my own beliefs and even faith. “Oh my! How can one have faith with out God!?” It’s funny to think it, but it’s not nessicary to have a god or gods in your life to have faith, to know right or wrong. I have faith in myself, my friends, and my family. I have their love and their trust. If I need help, I know they are there to catch me and no God will save me in my time of need. If I die and find out there is a god(s) and he/she/they punish me because I didn’t swear to their doctrins, because I didn’t say that I believed in them, if they judged me based on those things and not my good will. My contrabutions to humanity and to help those in need, then let me be D***ed for that is not a god worth worshiping. We don’t need the faiths of religions who have proven in the past to cause more harm than good. We can help ourselves be a prosperous species with pure hearts and good nature. It’s in ourselves, not granted to us.
“Comment from Marianne
Date: Friday November 9th, 2007, 10:18am
Comment to CraigB: Actually you’re not automatically a member of the state church in Norway, you have to be christened to be a member”
you’re actually both right. while you are not counted as a member untill you are baptised, you are automatically considered a follower (tilhører) of the church from the moment you are born unless both of your parents are members of other churches or actively apply for you not to be considered a follower. it is enough for one of your parents to be a follower for your name to be entered to the lists the moment you are born. and it is the number of followers, and not members, that is being thrown about in social debate as the “size” of the church. it is also the number on which the financial support for the church is based.
this unusual (and inconsequential) differentiation between different categories of membership is often the cause of misunderstandings in discussions such as these.
on another note, its funny to see how many people who miss the obvious point of this comic strip. thanks to the author for clarifying what i’d have thought to be obvious to any reader: the point is to show how religious conservatives continually draw conclusions about society that do not stand up to even the most superficial scrutiny, and that even a child can see through their rethoric once they know a few facts.
another, more amusing note:
when downloading the form for withdrawing one’s name from the lists of the church of norway, norton antivirus will go off like hell (or did, a year ago) as you try to open the document.
when downloading the form to enter your name into the lists as a member, there’s no problems whatsoever.
ulv, that is quite interesting about norton. But let’s remember that there is of course no such thing as coincidence. God, in all his wisdom and profound glory has a plan for all of us (especially melody). And apparently, his plan includes screwing with peoples computers via anti-virus software when he feels threatened. I mean can ya blame the guy? It’s a hard knock life up there, and to be completely honest, if I were in his uber-gigantic shoes I would have used my omnipotence the same way.
Speaking of another, more amusing note, I find it interesting that the spellcheck for this comment box will let you know you’ve spelled “christian” wrong if the “c” isn’t capitalized. However, god, protestant, atheist, etc., are good to go in the lowercase.
Also, Ian, I can’t say I’m too surprised that that guy didn’t have an opinion…I’m sure he was well aware that he was always full of shit.
“It’s in ourselves, not granted to us.” Great phrase.
i really am tired of all this.
i don’t believe in god and that doesn’t make me less human than you are.
if you want to spend your life being afraid of burning in hell, that’s fine and not my problem at all
but leave the rest of us alone to live peacefully
christian fighter Wednesday December 5th, 2007 @ 10:37pm
ya know…im 13, i go on youtube to find a christian band i type in “christian” u know what i get?…I get a bunch of athiests preaching about how there “is no god”…i click a different video and its the same thing but a different athiest preaching, it makes me sick that they want to break mine, and othere christians religion down…i dont mind if they’re athiest…just dont tell us that there “is no god”.
The atheists you hear complaining are doing so because they’re tired of the exact same thing happening to them from Christians.. constantly cramming god(s) down their throat.
I went to Denmark and Sweden back in 1958 and found that they were good Scandinavian brothers (sisters) to Norway way back then. So good to hear that the peace mongers are just as “God” free today! I would like to visit Norway to see her beauty and drink a beer or sip some coffee with some of those atheists one more time.
I had the pleasure of working with several Norwegians a few years ago, they were extreamly generous and kind people. Being from the UK i can quite honestly say that unless your parents force religion on you (which happens all too often with certain groups of people) you are almost unquestionably atheist. It sickens me how much power religious groups have and the way they inflict their stupid laws on everybody. I’d guess that the ‘atheist’ figure if only taken from under 30’s in Scandinavia, UK, Holland and Belgium you would see extremely high figures. Rational and critical though is taught in schools here, thinking rationally almost certainly leads to an atheistic view on life.
“You clown shoe”…..THAT is funny…When I was growing up, my parents made myself and both brothers go to church until we were 16…They didn’t care which one….Once we turned 16, it became optional, and all 3 of us dropped it….But the religious education was a good idea (I don’t use algebra either and I had to take classes in that as well)….What I took away from that experience was that one should develop a personal code and live by it…Not for fear of Hell or hopes of Heaven, but because basics like the 10 commandments and the Golden Rule are simply the right things to do….But there are over 200 denominations in the US….so everyone is an atheist in 199 of them because only the brand they subscribe to is the “correct” one…I’ve met great people of all religions and real stinkers too…My take on it is that life is wonderful, but I don’t think there is a supreme being or afterlife….if there is, He (or She) will know that I’ve basically behaved myself and give me a pass….if that’s not the case and the big guy is that petty, I don’t want to be in eternity with him anyway….so it’s win win as far as I’m concerned…I’m good with being wormfood…
>For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
That’s useful?
>For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
>You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
yeah, these ten commandments are jam packed with usefulness.
LOL….Yeah…The Technical ones are useful too….Keeping the Sabbath Holy will insure I get one day to sleep in….I think we need two sabbaths, in fact….maybe one for bingo nights at the church, and another day off for everyone else……and not saying Goddamn too much keeps me from getting plowed into by Christians and makes me expand my vocabulary to useful phrases like Boy Howdy and Holy Smokes!!…But mostly I was speaking of the other ones….No killing or robbing, honoring father and mother, making moves on the wife next door….Things that keep drama out of your life…Nearly all the main line religions have the same basic rules for living, and by and large, they are well thought out….it’s when they get into the mystical details that separate them that they lose logic as far as I’m concerned…What one believes or doesn’t believe is entirely personal and ever evolving…I am against organized religion for the same reason I oppose group sex…I find the crowds distracting and I don’t necessarily want to do what they may want to do…I do find it useful to discuss it one on one with intelligent others in order to refine my own views….If a supreme being did not want me to use my logic, he would have made us all agreeable Labrador Retrievers….
It would depend on his jab technique and how is is in the later rounds….Maybe he IS a wife beating drunk, but perhaps he has a marvelous singing voice…or maybe keeps his shoes shined better than anyone…Or you could catch him passed out and pop a breaker bar over his hands and kneecaps to handicap him for fighting out of his weight division….Maybe Mom just needs to go to the gym and spend some time with the speed bag….Just thank your lucky stars you have this entertainment right at home and don’t have to invest in pay-for-view and enrich Don King!!
Memo to all christians:
I’ll keep my opinions and beliefs to myself if you will do the same. Noone and I repeat: No one has any right to force their beliefs on anyone else. You Christians and now the Muslims are trying to do just that. Go away! Your belief is no more valid than mine and I am not about to tell you what that is as it is mine and between me and whatever or whomever I believe in or don’t believe in.
Well I am an atheist and a member of the Catholic church. Reason being. I was a baby when I was signed up. It’s not like they check in on you to see if you still want to be a member every few years. So keeping that in mind I would imagine a lot of that %85 church membership in Norway is the Church roles from baptisms and the like and nothing at all to do with who is actually attending services regularly.
The founding fathers (USA) are a good example of Christians who werent. Almost to a man they were members of the church (Anglican of course) while again almost to a man they considered themselves Deists. If you say you are an atheist, you are one.
My name is Lars and I am a Norwegian. I am going to write a book about what people from other countries think about Norway and norwegians. So it would be great if you could answer any of the following questions:
– Do you know much about Norway?
Do you have any opinion about Norway and Norwegians?
Do you think Norwegians have a particular look, act in a particular manor and have a strange cultur?
Are there diferences between Norwegians and Swedes?
Is there anything else you want to say about Norway and Norwegians?
The reason 85% is the member of church is because
of tradition, i dont know a single person in my friends, friends, family, friends of family that are christians.
And people just dont bother resigning from the church, there is no harm in being member of a church, regardless if you are a christian or not.
Better late than never, right?
Regarding the number of people still registered as members of the church in Norway, it’s the same deal here in Denmark. Most are registered, but not many actually go to church or believe in christianity. It’s like previously noted, more of a tradition than anything else. But that said, it’s easy to get unlisted here. :)
Where the hell do these stats come from? I can’t find anywhere where Norway’s “atheist quotient” is this high. I’m sick of people distorting stats and not even mentioning the source. At best, 50% of Norwegians are atheist or agnostic, not seventy.
Actually, looking at worldwide rates of Irreligion on Wiki, this stat probably came from Estonia, which has the highest rate of irreligion at 75% and sounds pretty sweet, better than stinky old Norway.
Felipe Budinich Wednesday June 24th, 2009 @ 12:03pm
“It’s a thing of the past that should never have existed to begin with.
However unfortunately as mentioned before, it’s a great political tool.”
I, being an atheist, can’t really support that idea.
A great deal of knowledge has been preserved by religious people in monasteries and the like during complicated times of human history, and served as a decent mean to control society and not let it devolve into the bronze age again (the dark ages for example).
The problem is that religion did not get abolished after free thinkers proved it wrong in the 17 century “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought”
The biggest problem facing our planet today is population problem.
Population is a big issue. Thomas Malthus was the person who pointed out the problem first. He clouded the issue with talk of food supplies and arithmetical ratios. The growing population faces many problems like illiteracy, unemployment, poverty etc.
I must say I find comments like Erics quite amusing; “I hate Norway and Norwegians”. LOL! You are aware of, I assume, that you are free to leave whenever you want – or have you adopted to much to the overly generous welfare system?
There are several comments in this thread that are very interesting, and I too believe that the atheist number is somewhat high. The Christians in this country are not as loud and extreme as you would find in many other countries, but I believe that many have some type of “faith” anyway. Personally I am a member of the state church while at the same time being an outspoken Darwinist, without anyone thinking twice about it. The state religion and church, upon which this country is basically built, has good core values and I think many Norwegians agree with them without buying into the whole “God” thing.
I have not read all of the above articles, but we even have a place called Hell in Norway, so if you would like to spend a night at Hell Hotel, then just search it up, book a vacation close to the city of Trondheim in mid Norway! :)
We’re not worse then what you have read about the Vikings… ;)
Ok, call me crazy, but…is it not possible for people to get along? I mean, I am christian, yet I am not preachy, and do not try to convert people or tell them that they are wrong in any way. In fact, I don’t really think religion is a position in which you can be “wrong” or “right”. Likewise, plenty of people I know who are non-christian or atheist don’t take every opportunity to call me a sheep who follows a book full of hate. Is it impossible to just live and let live?
Okay, listen I’m a christian myself. I believe in God and that Christ died for our sins. One of my good friends is atheists and him and I get along perfectly. We never argue or try to convert the other into what we believe in. However, there are other people, christian and atheist alike, that try to do this on a regular basis. I learned a long time ago that trying to get someone to believe in what you believe in is like trying to turn a Yankees fan into a Red Sox fan or vice versa. Not gonna happen. Each is is gonna talk about how much better their team is despite statistics, or who’s won more championships, or whatever. Same goes with beliefs.
My point is all belief systems, whether religious, agnostic, or atheist, breeds people who can be die hard dickhole “my (team/belief) is better than yours” fans, or it can also breed cool, respectful “oh you’re a (whatever) fan? Good for you” fans. And in my opinion, the Norway atheist statistics is like someone showing off his favorite team’s stats in an attempt to prove how their team is better. Who cares if your team has more super Bowls? And who cares if Norway is filled with atheists and they’re doing great. You’re still gonna look like a douche to whoever isn’t a fan of what you believe in. Same goes for religion. When it comes to being a christian, jew, atheist, muslim, whatever, people need to stop being the asshole “my team is so awesome, just look at our stats”. And be the “Oh you’re a Detroit Lions fan
I find it really hard to believe in anything but science, i mean.. who told you about god? or allah or buddah or whatever… your mom and dad right?
Did they also tell you Santa was real? And did you believe it?
What about ghosts, or the monsters under your bed….
Humans have vivid imagination, we can make a lot of really fucked up thoughts that make things seem real to us, like people following us in the dark, or Santa…..
I love the thought of believing in a "god", its a fairytale that makes life a little easier to live, and many people find comfort in it, so why not believe they / he / she exist. I really envy the people who do believe in "god", it makes life seem much more like a part of a bigger picture, rather than: Ur born, u live, u die. Which sounds rather boring compared xD
It's more likely that some alien somewhere on a planet ( yeah i said alien ), or somewhere out there can come as a "supreme" being, ( no i don't think crop-circles / crop-figures are made by aliens ) making people make the connection: God. But i have yet to see one. To me that scenario is atleast plausible.
Thursday October 25th, 2007 @ 8:11am
This comic strip rocks harder than jesus 5-starring free bird.
Saturday May 22nd, 2010 @ 1:34am
lol
Wednesday October 31st, 2007 @ 1:25pm
funny thing, there is a place in Norway that’s called “Hell”
Sunday May 16th, 2010 @ 8:01pm
There are a lot of places named hell. There’s one in MI too…
Thursday November 1st, 2007 @ 4:41pm
hmm… everything about norway is true… incl the Hell part… cool! btw, the national railway has a station in Hell – and I have a ticket: Roundtrip to Hell with a 3 day stay :)
Thursday November 1st, 2007 @ 8:32pm
Review Norway’s immigration policy much?
Sunday November 4th, 2007 @ 5:53am
well, 85 percent of norways population is member of a chuch. But it sure made me laugh!
In norwegian “hell” is a word for luck x)
Sunday November 4th, 2007 @ 11:46am
joachim, it’s hard to get your name out of the records of the church in case you don’t know.
Sunday November 4th, 2007 @ 11:52am
Hell og lykke. (means “good luck”(directly translated it means “luck and happines”)).
85% of Norwegians are members of a church, yet most of them still describe themselves as atheists/agnostics. In Norway, being member of a church is more of a tradional thing, than it is religious.
Sunday November 4th, 2007 @ 4:55pm
Norway sounds pretty sweet!
Monday November 5th, 2007 @ 11:57am
Who cares, economic success, unemployment etc. is not a case for atheism, nor is old testament genocide a case for religion, the reality is that fervent religious belief makes no sense unless you’re unfortunate enough to have been indoctrinated or are happy to live in comfortable delusion (at least I know I won’t burn in hell, type comfort!). Look at it this wayIf Norway was as nice as I’m sure it is, but 99% of the population were good churchgoers, I still wouldn’t believe in god!! The cartoon is good though!!!
Tuesday November 6th, 2007 @ 6:38am
Citizens of Norway are automatically considered and registered as members of the state church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway, unless they explicitly note otherwise. This hardly constitutes 85% religiosity.
Tuesday November 6th, 2007 @ 3:31pm
Well, Norway can be used as a model (of sorts) to support the argument some Atheists try to make – people and societies can be ethical and “good” and productive without religion. I find it compelling and the cartoon sums it up nicely.
Tuesday November 6th, 2007 @ 7:38pm
The teachings of the brotherhood of man founded on the fatherhood of God is by far better then the alternatives.
Brotherhood constitutes a fact of relationship between every person. No person can escape the benefits or the penalties that may come as a result of relationship to other persons. The part profits or suffers in measure with the whole. The good effort of each man benefits all men; the error or evil of each man augments the tribulation of all men. As moves the part, so moves the whole. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part. The relative velocities of part and whole determine whether the part is retarded by the inertia of the whole or is carried forward by the momentum of the cosmic brotherhood.
This truth can be accepted or rejected the one thing we all have is the power to choose.
Wednesday November 7th, 2007 @ 12:39am
Choice is an illusion. Everything that will happen has already been decided by the past.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 1:55am
I am an Australian and Atheism was at 12% 6years ago and las t years census it climbed to 20%.
I hope it is catching.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 4:46am
I have news for the athiests out there … the MAJORITY of industrialized countries are Athiest, and the MAJORITY of these countries are more currupt than any others. Actually, now that I think of it, is there even one country in the world that is run by Christians? I don’t think so … but one thing is for sure … It’s sure isn’t AMERICA! Remember people, just because someone says they are Christian, that does NOT make it so. Infact the Bible says you will know them (Christians) by their fruits, (Fruits of the Spirit) so doesn’t that mean that those who are hypocrites to Biblical standards are not genuine Christians?
Seriously … even those who worship Satan in the open aren’t ignorant enough to claim there is no God, unfortunatly they just hate Him like most of the world, which of course there is NO justifiable reason. Now, don’t come on here and tell me that there’s no reason to Love God either, because you have more than enough evidence throughout history to show the mercy and compassion of God, and the exact opposite is shown for the one who rules this earth in whom the Athiests serve unknowingly … Satan. (Sad but true)
Alright I admit I’m getting preachy and off topic, but this seemed like a good time to get that off my chest.
I do however find it funny that the Athiest movement is the one group who is always whining about how they are persecuted about their beliefs. Have Athiests been killed for their belief around the world on a Daily Basis? Have they been continually persecuted throughout history like the Jews and Christians? Have they ever had to give their life for what they believe?
Why am I expected to have sympathy for a group of people who are supposed to believe in nothing ANYWAY! Alright, you believe in nothing … we get it!
Tuesday November 9th, 2010 @ 7:45pm
You know, to serve Satan, we would have to FUCKING BELIEVE HE EXISTS… Asshole.
Monday January 10th, 2011 @ 5:58am
So the US isn’t run by “your kid of christians”? As if that make any difference to the rest of us? And then you accuse others of whining and playing the persecution card while, at the same time, doing it yourself.
Sad but true, indeed.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 6:22am
“the MAJORITY of industrialized countries are Athiest, and the MAJORITY of these countries are more currupt than any others”
This is untrue both by the percentage of the populations of those countries that identify as religious in censuses and by the number of those countries with explicit or implicit state religions.
You also haven’t seen how corrupt non-industrialized countries in the global south can get. Or churches.
And who mentioned corruption anyway?
“I do however find it funny that the Athiest movement is the one group who is always whining about how they are persecuted about their beliefs. Have Athiests been killed for their belief around the world on a Daily Basis? Have they been continually persecuted throughout history like the Jews and Christians? Have they ever had to give their life for what they believe?”
If atheists are the only group who complain about being persecuted then why are you complaining about the religious being persecuted? That makes no sense.
Atheists are killed for their political beliefs the same as anyone else. They have been persecuted by Christians and burnt at the stake as heretics. And they have had to give their lives for what they believe in the same as anyone else in any war or conflict you care to mention.
“Why am I expected to have sympathy for a group of people who are supposed to believe in nothing ANYWAY! ”
Because you are a good Christian and have read what is written of Christ’s teachings regarding charity, sympathy and forgiveness?
Or failing that because you have the same evolved capacity for sympathy as everyone else and shouldn’t let your religiously-inspired hatred take it away part of what it means to be human from you?
Monday March 29th, 2010 @ 1:39pm
You are as wrong as it’s possible to be. Atheist are discriminated against on a daily basis around the world. They have been, and are being tortured and killed for their atheism. Perhaps you may have heard of the inquisition? Personally, I have been ostracized, threatened, and physically attacked for expressing my opinion. All by “good christians” of course.
Christians are the ones who are constantly whining about being persecuted. Even though they control almost everything and manage to get their sick beliefs enacted into law to force others to adhere to their hate-filled theology.
But distortions, ignoring blatant facts, and even lying have been the theist’s methodology forever. Nice to see you are still personally using those tactics.
Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 12:45pm
Yes they have died, “heretics” persecuted by the church, By the way, Christians persecuted, hmmm… Don’t be hypocritical, they have killed more people than anyone ever. You are ridiculous and your book full of hate and confusing moral pretext, that has a few passages about forgiveness which you don’t obviously adhere to… is why you are supposed to have sympathy assface. I tell you the truth, I believe there is no god (that’s why I don’t capitalize it, heehee)but I still feel sorry for all you ignorant Jeebus zombies as well as Islamists and Jewey Jews… You are all wrong, and your trying to take the rest of us down with you into the abyss of your angry Apocalyptic Jihad Rapture future that you all cant wait to get to!!! Stop F-ing with the rest of us you ignoramus!
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 7:48am
I have a rock. It is an anti-tiger rock. I don’t see any tigers around, so my rock must be working!
None of what you mentioned can be showed to be causal. In fact, I’m sure I can find several secular states in Africa that will demonstrate the opposite of what you propose. In fact, the Democratic Republic of the Congo is a secular state and probably the worst country in the world to live in. So what? Specious.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 9:16am
“Why am I expected to have sympathy for a group of people who are supposed to believe in nothing ANYWAY!”
We don’t care whether you do or not. We just want you to keep your retarded delusions to yourself, and stop bothering everyone else with them.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 9:25am
@Frank: Congo is heavily religious. Virtually the entire population is Christian, those that aren’t are members of a different religion. I’m really not sure were you get your claims that Congo is a ‘secular state’, unless you mean that it’s not a theocracy.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 9:33am
Is it possible that Jesus is Hiding out in Norway? Who wants to find Jesus with me?
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 10:20am
I went through Hell getting to Trondheim last year (arf arf).
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 11:10am
A good friend of mine is an ex-paratrooper from the 82nd Airborne. His wife is half Norwegian, and so still a Norse citizen. When they started having children, and our government started going to hell, they decided to move to Oslo with the kids. They are extremely happy about their decision, love Norway and the rational, friendly, well-educated people there, and the non-insane government gets high marks, too. Although they miss the States once in awhile, whenever I talk to them they remind me that it’s a great country and that their door is always open. Hmmm….why do I still live in the U.S.?
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 12:51pm
Very good!
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 1:06pm
It’s far more likely that their peacefulness comes from the fact that there is tremendous economic prosperity in Norway, which reduces the number of poor/disenfranchised people, which in turn reduces the desire for armed conflict to change the status quo.
You know why they’re so prosperous? Oil. They have a lot of it, and every Norwegian national gets a share of the take. When you’re talking about large populations — not individuals — peace doesn’t have anything to do with how religious people are. It has to do with how well the wants and needs of the people are being satisfied.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 3:11pm
@joel Athiests don’t believe in nothing.. That would be a Nihlist. And nihlists believe in “nussing labosky NUSSING!”
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 4:14pm
Where’s the money Lebowski? WHERE’S THE FUCKING MONEY LEBOWSKI?!
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 7:03pm
mmm the dude,,
Nice comic btw ^^
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 11:32pm
All I have to say is that I will pray for everyone of you. I will pray for your eyes to be opened to the truth of the Gospel of Jesus who loves everyone of you. He loved you so much that he stretched out his arms and died for you!
Monday March 29th, 2010 @ 1:45pm
I am offended by your comment. What if I were a satanist and said I was going to “pray to lord satan for you to see the light and begin worshiping the true ruler of the universe”? Would that be OK with you?
You are an incredibly arrogant, obnoxious human being. Luck for you there is no hell or you would surely be there now.
Incidentally, jesus never existed. You have been blinded by the brainwashing you have received by the religious reich. Show me even one contemporary account of jesus. Then look up Mithra. See where the jesus myth was stolen from? As usual, christians a fools, liars, or hypocrites. Usually, they are all three at the same time.
Thursday November 8th, 2007 @ 11:37pm
I can tell you exactly what the strip is supposed to mean because I drew it. The intention of the comic is not to imply that a less religious society is necessarily a better one, but rather that the claims made constantly by Bill O’Reily, Pat Robertson and every conservative politician ever, that it’s the secularization of America that’s to blame for our problems is just silly and demonstrably false.
If it were the lack of religiosity that caused poverty, suffering, immorality and crime, then places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Japan would be in ruins by now. The fact that those places are doing better than America in many ways is a huge problem for the people posing the argument. And I think that’s funny. I’m not trying to imply causality, just pointing out lack of correlation.
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 12:01am
You leave me the Hell alone, jeremy! I’m staying!
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 7:46am
A very good point, Chaz, unfortunately it is rational and not emotional. You’re just not pushing the right buttons and let’s face it, that is what all those arguments against a secular America are all about. The religious backers speak in sound bites and fear mongering phrases. All the talk about religion takes the focus away from the real issue, individual spirituality.
Even atheists have spiritual beliefs, I would even go so far as to say they are kind of spiritual at times. I am sure the Norwegians must be very level headed people endowed with a the ability to think rationally. Maybe they even take inividual responsibility seriously and therefore have thought about the issue of atheism and religion and have come to their own conclusions. In America we like strong leaders, leaders who aren’t afraid to lead from the back of the pack especially when the pack are lemmings and getting ever closer to the cliff.
So I am afraid what the Norwegians have just wouldn’t work here. IN the U.S., strong religious leaders who can control the little lemmings are in vogue and not likely to go away soon. Still, keep up the good work! We will eventually find inner peace and finally our own undiscovered self, one person at a time.
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 9:42am
Im an athiest Norwegian and I can tell you there is a whole lot more peace in my spirit simply because I DIDNT VOTE FOR AN ASSHOLE THAT JUSTIFIES THE KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS. You christians that voted for Bush, if your doctrine is correct, are all as responsible for the death and suffering in Iraq as he is. I know there is a Republican party in hell for you!!
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 10:18am
Comment to CraigB: Actually you’re not automatically a member of the state church in Norway, you have to be christened to be a member.
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 10:23am
Ruud you are a dumb shit. Get your facts right. The killing of innocents… We are killing people who would be slaughtering their own people if we didn’t happen to show up.
Tuesday November 9th, 2010 @ 7:56pm
At least letting them kill each other keeps us out of WAR and DEBT.
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 10:39am
You ignorant fuk, this so-called save iraq war has taken twice the lives than that during Saddam’s rule. 600,000 and counting……you and your brainless brothers are a bunch of morons. what are you,about 16 years old? uneducated. uninformed. “well, my pastor told me so it must be true”. hey dumb ass(and the rest of your crew of stupid) has Bush done ANYTHING to reverse RoevWade? You idiots!!! bush used you all to get his murderous ass elected. who’s the real douche bags now?
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 12:47pm
A comment on the apparent paradox: “70 percent of norwegians are atheist” and yet “85 percent of norways population is member of a church”.
There might just be a connection between these two facts, as the chuch with pretty much all those members happens to be the state sponsored national church (in previous times used by the government as a convenient tool of control). Now, being securely funded by the state THIS CHURCH DOESN’T NEED TO DO ANY EFFECTIVE ADVERTICING. There’s no need to fool the individual believers out of their money, hence no need for cheap rhetorical tricks (puching the right buttons, painting graphic images of hell, damnation, the rapture and the like…) – and as result we norwegians are blessed with a rather toothless (and boring) church, increasingly receding into the realms of irrelevance . There’s obviously other explanations as well, but I think that there’s a good chance that the lack of any serious economic incentives for fooling the crowds have done a lot of good for norwegian society. In contrast, the free enterprice american religious corporations fighting for the soul of anyone with a wallet provide a blossoming market for the most effective emotional button pushers (or con-men) out there… I hate to admit it, but state religion might not be a bad idea in all instances. Yes, I’m terrified of theocracies like Iran, but I think the Nordic states provide interesting examples of state religion actually breeding non-belief…
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 7:01pm
Atheists have been, and are being persecuted, where you are getting these facts, is beyond me. But late Roman Empire, it was considered a capital crime. Hitler, banned free thought organizations, a quote, “We have . . . undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” In Iran, Atheists are not considered citizens, they aren’t granted basic rights. Have fun Bible thumper..
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 8:04pm
I think this comic was stupid and what good has Norway done for the world anyways…other than be raped by the Germans in WWII.
Friday September 17th, 2010 @ 7:53pm
quote from the great Brittain during WWII “The norwegian fleet is worth more for the allied the a million soldiers would have” The fleet had 1000 ships and was at most arround 40 % of all oil carried to the britts came from Norway.
Friday November 9th, 2007 @ 10:18pm
Jeffrey Higginbotham: Your comment is so stupid it honestly has to be a joke, therefore I will take it as one. Ahahahahaha. You clown shoe, you crack me up.
Monday January 10th, 2011 @ 6:07am
“Clown Shoe”…Not sure why I found that so funny, but I did.
Saturday November 10th, 2007 @ 8:40pm
i didn’t read everything, but so far… being pagan, (and not active in even that) i think that it’s a good comic strip. Torgeir has a very good point. having a state religion, has worked for them, while in the past, it becomes corrupted and such. look at Iraq and such. they take the Qur’an and make it their law. the united states, has freedom of religion, being that you can worship as you choose to, and not have to worry about being persecuted. being only 20, i don’t know a whole lot yet. my experience though, and seeing how the religions here work, it seems to me that it’s a race for members and wealth.
when the end comes, if there is an end, it will probably be quick, and very boring. till then, catholics, mormons, and other christians will still be passing the collection plate, asking for titheing, and such. atheists have the same morals and standards as religious people. be nice, don’t kill people, ect. the only difference is, if you’re bad, or a dick to an old lady, you don’t have someone telling you you’re going to burn for all eternity. america is not the greatest country in the world. our president is an idiot and our education is horrible. recently in UT, there was a referendum to give money to families that want to put there children into charter schools. they would recieve a better education there, but public schools don’t like it.
if our govt. would spend more money on education, and reforming our economy, instead of picking fights on countrys that didn’t have anything to do with destryoing the world trade center… (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, afganastan…) then we wouldn’t have had more people die. the US has had more friendly fire deaths then from the enemy… who cares if they have wmds… their countries don’t have the technology to send them that far. the most they would do is attack the jews and then get totally raped in return. (don’t fuck with the jews. they will kill you :P) being to much of one thing is bad. if you think i’m a sinner and will burn for saying this, then fuck you. if you think that i don’t know one thing about atheisim and shouldn’t say anything. fuck you. in a world where you can talk to anyone, anywhere, why worry about beliefs. people are people and if a country is doing good with a state religion that no one goes to, then cool. the russians are like that too.. just be alive. be nice to people, don’t persecute people if they aren’t hurting anyone, and the ones that do hurt people, tell them to knock it the fuck off, and leave it at that. they’ll get theirs.
Monday November 12th, 2007 @ 12:45pm
“You know why they’re so prosperous? Oil. They have a lot of it, and every Norwegian national gets a share of the take.”
Denmark, Sweden, and Finland, has no oil. And yet, theese nations are just as peacefull, educated and “good” as Norway. So, no it has nothing to do with how much oil (money) the state has. If that was the case, Iraq would be one of the best places in the world to live, but I’ve heard that it’s not.
Monday November 12th, 2007 @ 9:16pm
I’m an atheist and very pro-atheist, but I’m a bit ashamed of the duplicity I discovered in this comic. As a skeptic, I never accept an important claim without external citation or verification. Upon further investigation, I discovered that the “70%” statistic is a bit deceptive, excluding only those who believe in a personal diety. The real stats are as follows:
* 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that “they believe there is a God”.
* 47% answered that “they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force”.
* 17% answered that “they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force”.
Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy_in_Norway#Religion_in_Norway_today
Tuesday November 13th, 2007 @ 7:41am
“In 2005, a survey conducted by Gallup International in sixty-five countries indicated that Norway was the least religious country in Western Europe, with 29% counting themselves as believing in a church or deity, 26% as being atheists, and 45% not being entirely certain.” Wikipedia says. I guess “not entirely certain” is sort of agnostic. I’d say more like 75 % of people in younger generations are completely atheists though.
Tuesday November 13th, 2007 @ 3:16pm
HAhahahahaaa…ha….. heh… heheheeee…. whew…
flame thread was funnier than the comic.
Oh, shit… fell off my soap box. sorry.
Tuesday November 13th, 2007 @ 6:48pm
You can also include The Netherlands,Spain and England to the list of Secular countries that have a good, strong and stable society.
Wednesday November 14th, 2007 @ 1:46pm
Repeating what Brandon said:
Upon further investigation, I discovered that the “70%†statistic is a bit deceptive, excluding only those who believe in a personal diety. The real stats are as follows:
* 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that “they believe there is a Godâ€.
* 47% answered that “they believe there is some sort of spirit or life forceâ€.
* 17% answered that “they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life forceâ€.
Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy_in_Norway#Religion_in_Norway_today
Thursday November 15th, 2007 @ 1:13pm
There is an atheist who is walking out in the woods thinking evolution caused all of the beauty of the forest. Well along comes this 7 foot tall grizzly bear. The atheist turned around and saw the grizzly and screamed a bloodcurdling scream and runs up the hill. Then the grizzly starts chasing and closing in on him. Well just as the bear got ready to kill him he screamed save me God! Time stopped and a bright light shown in the sky and god said why should I save you after all these years of you teaching others I’m not real? The atheist replied, Lord it would be a hypocrisy to ask to be a Christian now but could you at least make the bear Christian? The Lord said O.K. Time started again and the bear took its paw away and put both together and said”Lord thank you for this food I am about to receive Amen.
Rofolcopers… your god is dead….
Friday November 16th, 2007 @ 8:32am
In fact it is a place in Norway called Hell, and for sure they are talking Norwegian there.
Monday November 19th, 2007 @ 9:18pm
I guess the remaining 30% worship Satan while listening to death metal and burning down churches, eh? ;)
Tuesday November 20th, 2007 @ 8:15pm
Joel, TC and Melody … are you guys 14 or what ?
Tuesday November 20th, 2007 @ 8:40pm
Look, I understand the idea of debate. The very essence of argument requires at least two sides to make point and counterpoint, yes… however, there is a difference between arguing and quarreling. This particular subject is a very interesting one to me and, well at very least, all of you. But the point of discussion here should not be to bash the hell out of the last comment, cuz let’s be honest, no one learns shit that way, they just sit in their towers firing back and forth with ammunition that will never break the skin. Opinions are like assholes, everybody’s got one, but there’s a very delicate way that one must go about presenting it if they want anybody to give it even a millisecond of consideration. And I think, most of us wish for that to happen, I mean we are commenting on this, are we not? If we’re going to comment on it, let’s choose our words carefully. You and I and the next girl and guy have an innate yearning for learning, and we can accomplish this far more efficiently if we argue like the rational human beings we are, in a civilized manner, rather than throwing our ideology around and hoping it sticks. I’d say it’s pretty goddamn obvious that doesn’t work. Forget about titles …. atheist, christian, demonic satan worshiper, I don’t give a shit what you call yourself or what you call me – I’m a person, you are a person. I don’t know about you but I find that when you leave it at that, you tend to learn a lot more, and with much less trouble. And one more thing. This may sound like just a bunch of hippie mumbo-jumbo, but like I said before, don’t fuckin label me, cuz whatever category you’ve put me in, you’re wrong. I’m in a category of my own , and mine only, just like each of you. Your opinion of Norway and religion is equally as important as mine. Let’s keep that in mind, and mind each others keeps. This is logic, this is life.
Tuesday November 20th, 2007 @ 8:57pm
@Joel
Clearly you haven’t read up on world history before making that post. Atheists (Galileo, etc) have been prosecuted throughout the ages because of religious fanatics that used Christianity as a political tool to control the masses.
It constrained the evolution of science and rationality. Not to mention human evolution as a whole.
What is strange however is that people who believe in fairy tales and imaginary things like Dragons are called crazy. Yet people who believe in this ‘God’ which for all accounts and purposes has no proof that it’s actually real, are accepted by society.
The very fact that Norway has those statistics, while remaining predominantly atheistic, goes to show that religion has no more purpose in contemporary society. It’s a thing of the past that should never have existed to begin with.
However unfortunately as mentioned before, it’s a great political tool.
@Rob Parker: +1 for your comment.
Tuesday November 20th, 2007 @ 11:38pm
Stone: I once met a guy who didn’t have an opinion.. then again, he also didn’t have an asshole.
Wednesday November 21st, 2007 @ 1:30am
I find all of this very interesting. All to oftin have I seen religions jump on everyones back for not following their faiths and beliefs. I find it tiering and quite annoying. But to be honest, I really don’t care what they think, or do. I am an Agnostic and I have my own beliefs and even faith. “Oh my! How can one have faith with out God!?” It’s funny to think it, but it’s not nessicary to have a god or gods in your life to have faith, to know right or wrong. I have faith in myself, my friends, and my family. I have their love and their trust. If I need help, I know they are there to catch me and no God will save me in my time of need. If I die and find out there is a god(s) and he/she/they punish me because I didn’t swear to their doctrins, because I didn’t say that I believed in them, if they judged me based on those things and not my good will. My contrabutions to humanity and to help those in need, then let me be D***ed for that is not a god worth worshiping. We don’t need the faiths of religions who have proven in the past to cause more harm than good. We can help ourselves be a prosperous species with pure hearts and good nature. It’s in ourselves, not granted to us.
Wednesday November 21st, 2007 @ 5:49am
“Comment from Marianne
Date: Friday November 9th, 2007, 10:18am
Comment to CraigB: Actually you’re not automatically a member of the state church in Norway, you have to be christened to be a member”
you’re actually both right. while you are not counted as a member untill you are baptised, you are automatically considered a follower (tilhører) of the church from the moment you are born unless both of your parents are members of other churches or actively apply for you not to be considered a follower. it is enough for one of your parents to be a follower for your name to be entered to the lists the moment you are born. and it is the number of followers, and not members, that is being thrown about in social debate as the “size” of the church. it is also the number on which the financial support for the church is based.
this unusual (and inconsequential) differentiation between different categories of membership is often the cause of misunderstandings in discussions such as these.
on another note, its funny to see how many people who miss the obvious point of this comic strip. thanks to the author for clarifying what i’d have thought to be obvious to any reader: the point is to show how religious conservatives continually draw conclusions about society that do not stand up to even the most superficial scrutiny, and that even a child can see through their rethoric once they know a few facts.
Wednesday November 21st, 2007 @ 5:51am
another, more amusing note:
when downloading the form for withdrawing one’s name from the lists of the church of norway, norton antivirus will go off like hell (or did, a year ago) as you try to open the document.
when downloading the form to enter your name into the lists as a member, there’s no problems whatsoever.
coincidence? probably. amusing? definately.
Wednesday November 21st, 2007 @ 10:37pm
ulv, that is quite interesting about norton. But let’s remember that there is of course no such thing as coincidence. God, in all his wisdom and profound glory has a plan for all of us (especially melody). And apparently, his plan includes screwing with peoples computers via anti-virus software when he feels threatened. I mean can ya blame the guy? It’s a hard knock life up there, and to be completely honest, if I were in his uber-gigantic shoes I would have used my omnipotence the same way.
Speaking of another, more amusing note, I find it interesting that the spellcheck for this comment box will let you know you’ve spelled “christian” wrong if the “c” isn’t capitalized. However, god, protestant, atheist, etc., are good to go in the lowercase.
Also, Ian, I can’t say I’m too surprised that that guy didn’t have an opinion…I’m sure he was well aware that he was always full of shit.
Wednesday November 21st, 2007 @ 10:38pm
I forgot to mention, Jason, very well put, I’m right there with ya.
Wednesday November 21st, 2007 @ 10:40pm
Zing!!
Friday November 23rd, 2007 @ 9:07pm
+1 for Jason. I’m totally in line with how you think.
Sunday November 25th, 2007 @ 10:54am
“It’s in ourselves, not granted to us.” Great phrase.
i really am tired of all this.
i don’t believe in god and that doesn’t make me less human than you are.
if you want to spend your life being afraid of burning in hell, that’s fine and not my problem at all
but leave the rest of us alone to live peacefully
Sunday November 25th, 2007 @ 2:15pm
religion is nice it makes u feel so much smarter ……. hehe
Wednesday December 5th, 2007 @ 10:37pm
ya know…im 13, i go on youtube to find a christian band i type in “christian” u know what i get?…I get a bunch of athiests preaching about how there “is no god”…i click a different video and its the same thing but a different athiest preaching, it makes me sick that they want to break mine, and othere christians religion down…i dont mind if they’re athiest…just dont tell us that there “is no god”.
Wednesday December 5th, 2007 @ 11:35pm
The atheists you hear complaining are doing so because they’re tired of the exact same thing happening to them from Christians.. constantly cramming god(s) down their throat.
Saturday December 8th, 2007 @ 2:07pm
I went to Denmark and Sweden back in 1958 and found that they were good Scandinavian brothers (sisters) to Norway way back then. So good to hear that the peace mongers are just as “God” free today! I would like to visit Norway to see her beauty and drink a beer or sip some coffee with some of those atheists one more time.
Wednesday December 12th, 2007 @ 5:32pm
I had the pleasure of working with several Norwegians a few years ago, they were extreamly generous and kind people. Being from the UK i can quite honestly say that unless your parents force religion on you (which happens all too often with certain groups of people) you are almost unquestionably atheist. It sickens me how much power religious groups have and the way they inflict their stupid laws on everybody. I’d guess that the ‘atheist’ figure if only taken from under 30’s in Scandinavia, UK, Holland and Belgium you would see extremely high figures. Rational and critical though is taught in schools here, thinking rationally almost certainly leads to an atheistic view on life.
Thursday December 27th, 2007 @ 2:37am
“You clown shoe”…..THAT is funny…When I was growing up, my parents made myself and both brothers go to church until we were 16…They didn’t care which one….Once we turned 16, it became optional, and all 3 of us dropped it….But the religious education was a good idea (I don’t use algebra either and I had to take classes in that as well)….What I took away from that experience was that one should develop a personal code and live by it…Not for fear of Hell or hopes of Heaven, but because basics like the 10 commandments and the Golden Rule are simply the right things to do….But there are over 200 denominations in the US….so everyone is an atheist in 199 of them because only the brand they subscribe to is the “correct” one…I’ve met great people of all religions and real stinkers too…My take on it is that life is wonderful, but I don’t think there is a supreme being or afterlife….if there is, He (or She) will know that I’ve basically behaved myself and give me a pass….if that’s not the case and the big guy is that petty, I don’t want to be in eternity with him anyway….so it’s win win as far as I’m concerned…I’m good with being wormfood…
Thursday December 27th, 2007 @ 9:49am
>For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
That’s useful?
>For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
>You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
yeah, these ten commandments are jam packed with usefulness.
Thursday December 27th, 2007 @ 11:43am
LOL….Yeah…The Technical ones are useful too….Keeping the Sabbath Holy will insure I get one day to sleep in….I think we need two sabbaths, in fact….maybe one for bingo nights at the church, and another day off for everyone else……and not saying Goddamn too much keeps me from getting plowed into by Christians and makes me expand my vocabulary to useful phrases like Boy Howdy and Holy Smokes!!…But mostly I was speaking of the other ones….No killing or robbing, honoring father and mother, making moves on the wife next door….Things that keep drama out of your life…Nearly all the main line religions have the same basic rules for living, and by and large, they are well thought out….it’s when they get into the mystical details that separate them that they lose logic as far as I’m concerned…What one believes or doesn’t believe is entirely personal and ever evolving…I am against organized religion for the same reason I oppose group sex…I find the crowds distracting and I don’t necessarily want to do what they may want to do…I do find it useful to discuss it one on one with intelligent others in order to refine my own views….If a supreme being did not want me to use my logic, he would have made us all agreeable Labrador Retrievers….
Thursday December 27th, 2007 @ 12:31pm
Knowing not to murder or steal is an intrinsic human trait.
Should you honor your father if he’s a wife beating drunk?
Thursday December 27th, 2007 @ 1:43pm
It would depend on his jab technique and how is is in the later rounds….Maybe he IS a wife beating drunk, but perhaps he has a marvelous singing voice…or maybe keeps his shoes shined better than anyone…Or you could catch him passed out and pop a breaker bar over his hands and kneecaps to handicap him for fighting out of his weight division….Maybe Mom just needs to go to the gym and spend some time with the speed bag….Just thank your lucky stars you have this entertainment right at home and don’t have to invest in pay-for-view and enrich Don King!!
Sunday December 30th, 2007 @ 12:20am
Memo to all christians:
I’ll keep my opinions and beliefs to myself if you will do the same. Noone and I repeat: No one has any right to force their beliefs on anyone else. You Christians and now the Muslims are trying to do just that. Go away! Your belief is no more valid than mine and I am not about to tell you what that is as it is mine and between me and whatever or whomever I believe in or don’t believe in.
Wednesday January 23rd, 2008 @ 3:00pm
Well I am an atheist and a member of the Catholic church. Reason being. I was a baby when I was signed up. It’s not like they check in on you to see if you still want to be a member every few years. So keeping that in mind I would imagine a lot of that %85 church membership in Norway is the Church roles from baptisms and the like and nothing at all to do with who is actually attending services regularly.
Tuesday April 1st, 2008 @ 3:43pm
The founding fathers (USA) are a good example of Christians who werent. Almost to a man they were members of the church (Anglican of course) while again almost to a man they considered themselves Deists. If you say you are an atheist, you are one.
Tuesday June 10th, 2008 @ 6:00am
Hello!
My name is Lars and I am a Norwegian. I am going to write a book about what people from other countries think about Norway and norwegians. So it would be great if you could answer any of the following questions:
– Do you know much about Norway?
Do you have any opinion about Norway and Norwegians?
Do you think Norwegians have a particular look, act in a particular manor and have a strange cultur?
Are there diferences between Norwegians and Swedes?
Is there anything else you want to say about Norway and Norwegians?
Great if you write to: lars (at) frittforlag.no
Sincerly yours
Lars
Tuesday June 10th, 2008 @ 6:04am
What do Norwegians thinks about Hans Island? ;)
Thursday June 19th, 2008 @ 2:52pm
Bill: We do not get a share of the oil income. That’s just not correct. It does finance our welfare system, though.
Sunday July 20th, 2008 @ 11:10am
The reason 85% is the member of church is because
of tradition, i dont know a single person in my friends, friends, family, friends of family that are christians.
And people just dont bother resigning from the church, there is no harm in being member of a church, regardless if you are a christian or not.
my latest stumblings « Bluewolf89’s Weblog
Wednesday July 30th, 2008 @ 8:44pm
[…] https://irreligion.org/2007/10/20/norway-theyre-all-going-to-hell/ […]
Thursday August 21st, 2008 @ 5:37am
Better late than never, right?
Regarding the number of people still registered as members of the church in Norway, it’s the same deal here in Denmark. Most are registered, but not many actually go to church or believe in christianity. It’s like previously noted, more of a tradition than anything else. But that said, it’s easy to get unlisted here. :)
Sunday September 28th, 2008 @ 12:58pm
Where the hell do these stats come from? I can’t find anywhere where Norway’s “atheist quotient” is this high. I’m sick of people distorting stats and not even mentioning the source. At best, 50% of Norwegians are atheist or agnostic, not seventy.
Sunday September 28th, 2008 @ 1:28pm
Actually, looking at worldwide rates of Irreligion on Wiki, this stat probably came from Estonia, which has the highest rate of irreligion at 75% and sounds pretty sweet, better than stinky old Norway.
Friday November 28th, 2008 @ 7:51pm
This ought to end discussion on the subject.
Friday January 9th, 2009 @ 10:08am
hi
dn5rwkucr0i3k1yn
good luck
Saturday March 28th, 2009 @ 10:58am
They do, ^_^
Google map: Hell, Norway
Sunday May 17th, 2009 @ 11:04am
I hate Norway and Norwegians, I`ve lived here too long. The bad things here far outnumber the good.
Wednesday June 24th, 2009 @ 12:03pm
“It’s a thing of the past that should never have existed to begin with.
However unfortunately as mentioned before, it’s a great political tool.”
I, being an atheist, can’t really support that idea.
A great deal of knowledge has been preserved by religious people in monasteries and the like during complicated times of human history, and served as a decent mean to control society and not let it devolve into the bronze age again (the dark ages for example).
The problem is that religion did not get abolished after free thinkers proved it wrong in the 17 century “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought”
Wednesday August 5th, 2009 @ 10:41am
The biggest problem facing our planet today is population problem.
Population is a big issue. Thomas Malthus was the person who pointed out the problem first. He clouded the issue with talk of food supplies and arithmetical ratios. The growing population faces many problems like illiteracy, unemployment, poverty etc.
Monday August 24th, 2009 @ 3:02am
I must say I find comments like Erics quite amusing; “I hate Norway and Norwegians”. LOL! You are aware of, I assume, that you are free to leave whenever you want – or have you adopted to much to the overly generous welfare system?
There are several comments in this thread that are very interesting, and I too believe that the atheist number is somewhat high. The Christians in this country are not as loud and extreme as you would find in many other countries, but I believe that many have some type of “faith” anyway. Personally I am a member of the state church while at the same time being an outspoken Darwinist, without anyone thinking twice about it. The state religion and church, upon which this country is basically built, has good core values and I think many Norwegians agree with them without buying into the whole “God” thing.
Friday October 9th, 2009 @ 8:53am
which is probably why Obama, who voted 4 times against the Born Alive Protection Act was given the Nobel Peace prize.p
Saturday May 15th, 2010 @ 8:24am
obama was given a nobel PEACE prize….
whats that got to do with abortions?
although he did send 4,000 troops to afganistan so not very “peacy”….
Friday October 9th, 2009 @ 9:45am
Maybe you should look into why Obama won the peace prize, since it has nothing to do with Abortions.
Friday October 9th, 2009 @ 10:59pm
Ian, please share with us why Obama won the peace prize, after 8 days in office as president.
Friday October 9th, 2009 @ 11:04pm
Because he’s not Bush, and he’ been in office more than 8 days.
Monday December 14th, 2009 @ 10:02am
I have not read all of the above articles, but we even have a place called Hell in Norway, so if you would like to spend a night at Hell Hotel, then just search it up, book a vacation close to the city of Trondheim in mid Norway! :)
We’re not worse then what you have read about the Vikings… ;)
Wednesday February 17th, 2010 @ 6:26pm
godisimaginary.com
Read it. Simple.
Wednesday February 17th, 2010 @ 6:31pm
I’m adding that site to the side bar. :D
Monday April 26th, 2010 @ 9:38pm
Ok, call me crazy, but…is it not possible for people to get along? I mean, I am christian, yet I am not preachy, and do not try to convert people or tell them that they are wrong in any way. In fact, I don’t really think religion is a position in which you can be “wrong” or “right”. Likewise, plenty of people I know who are non-christian or atheist don’t take every opportunity to call me a sheep who follows a book full of hate. Is it impossible to just live and let live?
Friday May 14th, 2010 @ 12:50am
also, norway has a mixed economy with monopolies over energy, food and aliminuim produccion. neoliberalism is bullshit.
Saturday May 15th, 2010 @ 8:22am
hey Ian,
can you add this site tot he side bar please.
http://www.freeigroups.com
it has nothing to di with religion or anything but…plz…
Wednesday August 11th, 2010 @ 5:44pm
Okay, listen I’m a christian myself. I believe in God and that Christ died for our sins. One of my good friends is atheists and him and I get along perfectly. We never argue or try to convert the other into what we believe in. However, there are other people, christian and atheist alike, that try to do this on a regular basis. I learned a long time ago that trying to get someone to believe in what you believe in is like trying to turn a Yankees fan into a Red Sox fan or vice versa. Not gonna happen. Each is is gonna talk about how much better their team is despite statistics, or who’s won more championships, or whatever. Same goes with beliefs.
My point is all belief systems, whether religious, agnostic, or atheist, breeds people who can be die hard dickhole “my (team/belief) is better than yours” fans, or it can also breed cool, respectful “oh you’re a (whatever) fan? Good for you” fans. And in my opinion, the Norway atheist statistics is like someone showing off his favorite team’s stats in an attempt to prove how their team is better. Who cares if your team has more super Bowls? And who cares if Norway is filled with atheists and they’re doing great. You’re still gonna look like a douche to whoever isn’t a fan of what you believe in. Same goes for religion. When it comes to being a christian, jew, atheist, muslim, whatever, people need to stop being the asshole “my team is so awesome, just look at our stats”. And be the “Oh you’re a Detroit Lions fan
Sunday September 12th, 2010 @ 11:13pm
Awesome comic xD
<— Norwegian Atheist
I find it really hard to believe in anything but science, i mean.. who told you about god? or allah or buddah or whatever… your mom and dad right?
Did they also tell you Santa was real? And did you believe it?
What about ghosts, or the monsters under your bed….
Humans have vivid imagination, we can make a lot of really fucked up thoughts that make things seem real to us, like people following us in the dark, or Santa…..
I love the thought of believing in a "god", its a fairytale that makes life a little easier to live, and many people find comfort in it, so why not believe they / he / she exist. I really envy the people who do believe in "god", it makes life seem much more like a part of a bigger picture, rather than: Ur born, u live, u die. Which sounds rather boring compared xD
It's more likely that some alien somewhere on a planet ( yeah i said alien ), or somewhere out there can come as a "supreme" being, ( no i don't think crop-circles / crop-figures are made by aliens ) making people make the connection: God. But i have yet to see one. To me that scenario is atleast plausible.
Heia Norge :)