Where does it say in the Bible that God hates gay people? He loves EVERYONE, me and you included. No matter what your sexuality is He will always love you. Our Father cares about us and wants us to come to Him. You see how there have been so many earthquakes and tsunamis recently just this and last year? He’s coming back soon… Compared to 40 years ago it was safer to step outside and have fun but now this once-good planet has become an immoral and filthy den of sinners. I know I’m a sinner, but I don’t WANT to sin. The world is going to end soon, I just know it. I’ll keep you all in my prayers, hoping that you come to Christ and surrender your hearts to Him. When we are in times of despair only He can give us comfort.
1 Peter 1:13 – Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1 Corinthians 15:19 – If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
1 Peter 1:3 – … In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Isaiah 40:31 – but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
The bible is jam packed with contradictions. That said, it does say pretty clearly:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Again, God does not hate gay people. He loves them so much that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life.
You cannot, however, enter the Kingdom of God while refusing to repent (which means turning away from your former way), anymore than a bank robber can continue to rob banks, an embezzler can continue to steal, or an adulterer can continue to commit adultery. Following Christ is about control and restraint — as Paul put it, dying to self daily. That means if you love God you obey Him, even if it means giving up things you like.
And God DID NOT choose for anyone to be a homosexual.
Yeah the vicarious redemption bit is where it stops for me.
If you admitted to me that you killed someone, I could certainly go to the cops, turn myself in in your stead and serve your life sentence (or die in the electric chair) for you, but my action would not erase your dirty deed, nor take away your guilt. It would not bring the person you killed back to life either. The idea that God would have such immense and cruel suffering rain down on an innocent individual as a form of “justice” for a crime committed is one thing, but his own self personified as his only human Son?
What Christian’s don’t understand is that this is not a beautiful thing by any stretch. It’s an incredibly grotesque, cruel and capricious application of justice for wrong doing. Crucifying a completely innocent person for the sins of others distorts and perverts any and all structures of justice that we have. If we are all sinners deserving the death penalty PLUS eternal damnation and suffering in hell, then why confuse things further by punishing one innocent person or a million innocents?
God should just deploy his extreme form of justice and be done with the matter. Creating this elaborate, sanctimonious system of exceptions and dogma, were it true,is colossal waste of celestial time. Lastly, millions of people were born, lived and died not knowing one iota of the story of Jesus nor it’s implications to their lives. They were not aware of the requirement to be “save” vicariously by a neolithic carpenter. Did those millions get a free pass, or a last second crash course (Jesus 101) just before passing through the pearly gates?
Matthew 10:32-39:
“32 ‘Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; 33but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.
Not Peace, but a Sword
34 ‘Do …not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household.
37Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.”
He sounds real loving in these passages. HE wants to split households and HE wants not to bring peace to the earth but a sword. I guess peace is the job of the atheist. It is also worth noting that I copied this from an argument that a christian was trying to make in support of the quote by Richard Bonnke “My definition for atheism: INTELLECTUAL VANDALISM. “The fool has said in his heart, ‘there is no God’” (Psalm 14, 1)” Another quote that makes no sense. I do not think that the atheists are the ones filling minds with useless information that tries to persuade people into a single mode of thinking.
If “G” still thinks that God loves everybody, he needs to read Deuteronomy 28;
“Curses for disobedience ”
Deut. 28:22 The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish.”
26Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
There’s more !
Read all of Deut. 28. Can’t you feel the Love ?
You too, show a critical misunderstanding of God’s Word. Sadly skeptics will point out every little “flaw” to God’s immaculate and limitless personality and say “Look! He hates us now! Maybe He’s not so great now, is he!?!” The problem here is that skeptics don’t bother to read the entire stories and instead prefer to nitpick certain verses to “prove” a point. What point are you trying to prove?
Anyways, time to disprove your points.
Read this:
http://wikichristian.org/index.php/Apologetics:_Deuteronomy_13.6-9
God did condone the execution of people who try to lead others astray. However, there were still many limitations:
1. “One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse a man of a crime, the two men involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the Lord before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against his brother, then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you.” Deuteronomy 19.15-19.
2. “These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land.” Deuteronomy 12.1. While not in Israel, the laws do not hold. (As implied in the verses above because there must judges to investigate.)
3. While the Jews interpreted this law, they wanted to be very careful not to convict anyone unless they had no choice, that is, if there was any way the life could be spared, they would. So they specified that the person must be told what the punishment would be and had to verbally confirm they knew the punishment. With that interpretation, very few executions were made. One execution within a seventy year period was considered a lot. Most scholars consider purpose of the verses is the threat, not the execution itself.
4. “Cursed is anyone who does not affirm the terms of this law by obeying them.” Deuteronomy 27.26. One of the greatest purposes of the Old Testament was to show that Sin brings Death and this passage is one prime example of that. The Torah was meant to be harsh – it shadowed the fact that any sin causes eternal Death. “You search the Torah because you believe it gives you eternal life. But the Torah points to me.” John 5.39 Jesus revealed the the Torah was not to give eternal Life but to teach of Himself who gives eternal Life. “The Torah was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.” Galatians 3.24-25. With Jesus, obedience to the Torah has been anulled, replacing it with obedience to Himself.
Israel was special. It was to be a contrast to other nations, “a light to the Gentiles,” but this could not happen if Israelites abandoned God. Unlike an ordinary nation, Israel was not meant for anyone, only those who choose to enter it and follow Jehovah.
I really am sorry if my “take” on Christianity offended you, but remember, you came here to us and not we to you.
Also, in all fairness, I admit that I find YOUR religion intellectually and morally offensive.
To think that I could once, spill the blood of an animal to take responsibility for my sins.
Would that work in a court of law today?
Let’s see, once we remove all the “tap dancing” from our topic,
What do we have?
What is the penalty for homosexuality ? Death. lev 20:13
What is the penalty for cursing your parents ? Death. ex 21:15
What is the penalty for worshiping other gods? Death. ex 22:20
What is the penalty for adultery? Death. lev 20:10
What is the penalty for working on the Sabbath? Death. ex 35:2
What is the penalty for anyone who blasphemes God? Death. lev 24:16
What is the penalty for a capital offense? Death. deut 21:22
What is the penalty for being a first born
child or animal in a land that holds the
Israelites captive? Death. ex 11:5
Hopefully, if you’ve ever worked on a Sunday, you were able to avoid having more than 2 men witnesing
this.
VGG73AP Mar 15, 2011 @ 00:46:16
“He sounds real loving in these passages. HE wants to split households and HE wants not to bring peace to the earth but a sword. I guess peace is the job of the atheist.”
You don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re taking all those verses out of context, as if God is directly speaking to all people and not just the evil and the wicked He is punishing. Would you honor a judge who lets murderers, rapists, burglars, etc. free and without punishment? NO! This is why God judged those people for their wicked ways. Man would become so independent and so full of pride that he would only think for himself. God wants us all to love one another.
As for the Peace vs. Sword argument help yourself to some quality reading:
http://carm.org/did-jesus-come-to-bring-peace-or-not
1. No Peace
1. (Matthew 10:34-36) – “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35″For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.”
2. (Luke 12:51,52) – “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three…”
3. (Luke 22:36) – “And He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one.”
2. Peace
1. (Mark 9:50) – “Salt is good; but if the salt becomes unsalty, with what will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”
2. (John 14:27) – “Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
3. (John 16:33) – “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace…”
4. (Acts 10:36) – “The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all).”
Context is the key to Jesus’ words. In Matthew 10:34, Jesus is speaking about the divisions that will come, even among family members, over their belief or lack of belief about Him. In that respect, He has come to bring division. This context is also related in Luke 12:51.
Luke 22:36 Jesus is preparing the disciples for His departure. He is telling them that they will need to provide for themselves and even protect themselves. Up to that time, everything they had needed had been provided. But, after the crucifixion and ascension, they would again be “on their own.” They would need to work, provide for their families, and, if need be, protect their own; hence, the mention of the sword. Of course, the Bible teaches that Christians are to be peaceful, loving, and forgiving; however, it also teaches that we are not required to sit idly by when persecuted unrighteously.
The rest of the “peace” verses, teach just that: peace.
Jesus did not contradict Himself. When we look at His words in context, we can see what He was saying and that there is no contradiction at all.
“I do not think that the atheists are the ones filling minds with useless information that tries to persuade people into a single mode of thinking.”
That’s an absurd charge against true Christians. We are not the ones filling our minds with useless information; those who claim to be “open minded” are. We love hearing what others have to say, even though they don’t have a true grasp of Christianity. The naysayers who attack and badmouth our God are the evil ones. It is cold-hearted atheist fools like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens who attack the beliefs of others by shoving it in their faces. Why not just leave us alone? I understand there are harsh people that *claim* to be “Christian”. They’re not. They are fakes and deceivers being used by the Devil.
I’,m having a hard time trying to understand just WHY people think that atheism makes for a more peaceful person? How do you get hope? If you suffered a near-death experience I’d like to know how many of you would call upon God for help? Only He is going to help you, not man. God wants to be a part of our lives.
If your argument about the verses in the bible being taken out of context then why do you try to interpret any of them literally? That was a book written by multiple people over a period of hundreds of years over a thousand years ago. The original context of those words no longer applies to modern society, not to mention multiple translations. If people want to believe in a higher power(s) then that is fine with me as long as everyone is allowed to believe what they want and be themselves. I come from a small town in Tennessee that is as conservative christian as it can get. There everyone calls themselves a christian and if you are gay, atheist, agnostic or anything else the bible labels as foolish or wrong then you are an outcast. Are entire communities like these under the spell of the devil?
“I’,m having a hard time trying to understand just WHY people think that atheism makes for a more peaceful person? How do you get hope? If you suffered a near-death experience I’d like to know how many of you would call upon God for help? Only He is going to help you, not man. God wants to be a part of our lives.”
Let me provide my opinion on these questions. As for peace I believe in preserving life because it is the only one we get. No war, no murder, no killing because separating someone from life is to end their entire existence. I do not think that in death they will become immortal and therefore I believe that the death penalty is wrong, that war should be avoided at all costs and murder is an abomination to life. I need no book to tell me that death is absolute and to bring it upon another person is bad. As for a near-death experience I would learn from it. Learn not to do it again and to enjoy the life I have. God wants to teach me a lesson by killing me? Would you teach a kid that electricity is dangerous by sticking his finger in a light socket? I believe we should all help one another. At the end of the day it is a person who holds the door open for someone who needs it, it is a person who donates time and money to charity, it is a person who performs life-saving surgery, a person who donated a kidney/bone marrow/etc. If you rely only on god to help you then do not use medicine or attend hospitals. Those are places where science and reason save lives…not god.
Oh and the hope question. I get hope from knowing that when I wake up every day I have an opportunity to live. I get to hold the door open for people, eat pizza, play video games, read and all of the other wonderful things that exist. I love my wife and hope to reproduce so that I may help bring new life into the world. Your hope comes only from being told you are immortal? It is not enough to want to live? To want to help one another? To pass on your genes to your children and help them grow up? I will welcome the day when I get to read, eat, and play video games with my son/daughter. I already enjoy seeing the looks on the faces of my nieces and nephews. They do not need god to wake up every day to be happy. They are content with existence…like me.
Len Mar 17, 2011 @ 14:24:57
I understand there are harsh people that *claim* to be “Christian”. They’re not. They are fakes and deceivers being used by the Devil.
Do I hear bagpipes? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman)
As for why atheists are more peaceful people (although that should perhaps be more peace-loving), for me it’s because I don’t have to rely on anyone else (or anything else – like a god) for my happiness.
i’ve always heard the whole “muslims aren’t violent, anyone who is violent isn’t a *real* muslim” claim over and over… it’s very tiring. ;)
Ben Mar 17, 2011 @ 23:03:59
um.
why did you even put up that link? there are true and there are false people in every group and sub-culture. a *true* christian does what a christian is supposed to do: FOLLOW the bible and try to be more christ-like such as resisting the temptation of sin(even though we sometimes fall off, we get back on our feet), giving to charities, helping your neighbor, LOVING and PRAYING *FOR* your enemy instead of HATING them (you atheists spout lots of anger and cuss words at *us*, especially those who have meant no harm to you! how does that make you any more moral than us?), not stealing, many moral things that christ taught us. jesus is there to comfort and guide those who have led troublesome lives. we all have problems, jesus wants to show you the way to a better life.
just because someone claims to be a christian or muslim doesn’t mean they actually are. it’s like saying you’re a musician yet you don’t know how to play a single instrument. how would that still count you as a musician if you can’t do anything that musicians do: play/sing?
not the most impressive analogy but anyone with a brain can see that. people can claim to be one thing but they can also contradict their own positions. i’m simply a christian (i am not holier-than-thou) who is trying to live his life to the fullest. i believe christ is the only path to happiness. christianity is also more community bonding than say, atheism… where do atheists meet up? do they have their own “church” or initial place for gathering? religion helps give people meaning in life. it’s quite hard to find a meaning when you simply lack a belief in every religion out there. jesus gives us a meaning in life. muhammad gives muslims a meaning in life. etc.
Len Mar 18, 2011 @ 15:53:00
@Ben
Although it’s rare (in my experience) to see, hear, or read of an atheist who “spouts lots of anger and cuss words” at Christians, I guess it happens. But it’s generally nowhere like the amount of vitriol spouted at atheists by True Christians (TM). But perhaps my view is biased because I almost never go to Christian blogs, but I do visit atheist blogs, where Christians come to curse us for the baby-eating heathens that we are.
However, atheists do get frustrated by Christians. This is often because those Christians tend to come out with the same tired old arguments that have been refuted countless times in the past. But then a newbie comes along and repeats what he’s (just) heard in church. That we’ve heard many times before. And refuted.
Another reason for frustration is when an atheist asks a Christian to explain a certain bible passage, and that Christian refuses to read what the bible actually says, preferring instead to explain what they think (or have been told) it says.
So perhaps we do shout at Christians sometimes. Not out of hate, but out of frustration that Christians aren’t interested in a proper discussion (despite what they may say). The Christians stick to their dogma and fairy stories. All we ask is that Christians start to try and think for themselves – examine their own holy book and see what it really says.
As for where we meet – well, anywhere. We’re not limited to being together in a church.
And if you really wonder why I posted the link, then I’d suggest you keep your ears open for the number of times you hear “oh, he’s not a real Christian…” from the people in your church – especially when talking about someone they disagree with, be it a famous evangelist or a person in the same church.
Anyway, that was way too long. I’m off for a glass of champagne. Have a great weekend.
I’,m having a hard time trying to understand just WHY people think that atheism makes for a more peaceful person? How do you get hope? If you suffered a near-death experience I’d like to know how many of you would call upon God for help? Only He is going to help you, not man. God wants to be a part of our lives.
It’s not atheism that makes for a more peaceful person — everyone is different, so it varies depending on a person’s background in contrast with another. For example, let’s use a number system (1 is for least peaceful and 10 is for most peaceful):
“Person A” is said to be very peaceful, with an 8. He gets compared to “Person B,” whose number is 10 (he is extremely peaceful). “Person A” is then compared to “Person C,” whose number is 6 (he is moderately peaceful). Often, “Person C” starts feeling a bit of distress here and there, but overall he’s still a peaceful person. Now take “Person C” and compare him to “Person D,” whose number is 2 (he is not a very peaceful person). By comparison, “Person C” seems very peaceful, compared to “Person D.”
What I’m trying to say here is that it just varies between one person and another to “measure up” how “peaceful” someone is. I don’t doubt the fact that there are Christians who are more peaceful than outsiders. Again, it’s not the religion or god but rather the person himself/herself. If believing in a god makes one person more peaceful, then so be it. If not believing in a god makes one person more peaceful, then there’s a problem there; they should go after what THEY want, not what others want.
Anyway, I feel that I should respond to your questions:
1. We all need a little bit of hope here and there to make it through the days of our lives. However, much like peace, it varies on what factors contribute to giving you hope. Some argue that a new video game released by a talented video game company gives them hope. Others argue that seeing their spouses and children picking them up at work for dinner gives them hope. There are so many things that give us hope, but it depends on the person. Sometimes there are things that don’t give some people hope, such as the death of a loved one. Sometimes there may be people who feel hopeful when something bad happens to another person. Should we just get up and point fingers at them, saying that they have a sick mind and/or are just hurtful people? No — because like I said, it varies from one person to another. One sees “good” as “evil,” whereas another sees “evil” as “good.” We cherry pick what makes us happy and discard the rest as unwanted in our lives.
2. People have their own personal problems with the god(s) they grew up believing in. I do see the purpose of a caring, loving deity looking after you but it’s nothing more than absolute metaphors. These things are for helping people without hope or peace to finally “feel” some sort of hope and peace. It’s weird, isn’t it? These things do not exist, yet they are so much like us. These are human inventions, made to only be comprehended by human beings. We are responsible for creating these things, which is like any form of Art, really. Therefore, while a near-death experience doesn’t prove that a god exists it at least helps those who are emotional and weak to feel the *NEED* to cling onto someone or something — they want you and they need you to be by their side in dark times of despair. Just like anyone suffering from a disease needing close family support in their deathbeds. I think this is why religion can help many people who need it. It’s not really about proving that a god exists but that there is a sense of belonging, a sense of feeling secure.
ONE FACT: Christ, not atheism, Is responsible for changing more people for the good than any other person who as ever lived.
One example is in the jailing system. People who are “born again” in jail have a much much much lower chance of finding themselvs back again. Another is in divorce rates. Couples who pray together every day have a 3% chance of getting divorced verses a 49% if not… It can’t be rationally denied by sane men.
People talk about the crusades as Christs fault, seems like. So I ask a question. Was the Pope Christ or is he just the Pope. “He who lives by the sword dies by the sword” and “He who has not sinned, may cast the first stone” are beautiful…Truth…
I will not attack. I don’t wish to hurt people with my words or my fists. Because of this people see me as to kind and weak. I ask, dose it take more strength to attack or to make peace, to lie or tell the truth, to be prideful of to humble one’s self.
I ask, what side is of this argument possesses more people trying to make peace with the other and what side uses the most verbal violence with intent of hate… The answers to these two questions will tell us who is under control and who is not. Who is truly strong and who is not.
Lets grow up people. Set aside the angle and the animal.
(In the name of Jesus, save the one God. Let him who has ears to hear let him hear)
“One example is in the jailing system. People who are “born again” in jail have a much much much lower chance of finding themselvs back again. Another is in divorce rates. Couples who pray together every day have a 3% chance of getting divorced verses a 49% if not… It can’t be rationally denied by sane men.”
I trust you have sources to back the numbers up.
“I ask, what side is of this argument possesses more people trying to make peace with the other and what side uses the most verbal violence with intent of hate…”
I’m not sure I read that right, but if I did, then religion gives people another reason to kill each other. Atheism would seem to take that reason away, leading to less people killed in the name of a fairy tale. Which is more good?
>Couples who pray together every day have a 3% chance of getting divorced verses a 49% if not… It can’t be rationally denied by sane men.
Lol, what a crock of shit. I’d love to see the source on that bullshit claim. Divorce rates are highest in states where “conservative values” are the highest (eg, the red states).
The following is data from the Barna Research Group, http://www.barna.org/ ;
Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 3 It was based on interviews of 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The sampling error is within 2 percentage points. The survey found:
Divorce rates among born-again Christians were much higher at 27 percent than for other Christian faith groups.
Atheists and Agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all: 21 percent.
“Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians,” Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/
I saw some statistics on divorce and atheists/agnostics had the lowest divorce rates. Perhaps instead of praying for their marriage to be saved they go to counseling, or better yet, talk to each other.
Casey :And the lord said “I hate gays”? Incorrect answer!
The Lord never actually said; “I hate gays”. He just thinks that they all should be killed.
Leviticus 20:13
“‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
(as Ian already pointed out in an earlier post)
i don’t think mr casey read any of your comments. you see, when we verbally abuse people online, we’re automatically “stronger” which correlated directly to us being wrong…right casey?
Mar 13, 2011 @ 23:47:24
This needs to become a t-shirt.
Mar 20, 2011 @ 02:27:03
And the lord said “I hate gays”? Incorrect answer!
Then we all understood what it means to be outside of time.(dumb.dumb.dumb.dumb….dumb)
Mar 14, 2011 @ 00:38:51
Where did this come from? Since I’d totally just silk screen it on or something, but don’t really want to violate any copyright laws.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 00:40:23
Its just some text on a black background… I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 16:53:25
Well might have been someones idea/quote or something that is licensed or copyrighted, rather not break any laws of sorts.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 17:45:54
It will only break laws if you start selling it. A personal print is 100% legal in both Canada and the US, assuming you’re from one of those.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 13:05:03
Where does it say in the Bible that God hates gay people? He loves EVERYONE, me and you included. No matter what your sexuality is He will always love you. Our Father cares about us and wants us to come to Him. You see how there have been so many earthquakes and tsunamis recently just this and last year? He’s coming back soon… Compared to 40 years ago it was safer to step outside and have fun but now this once-good planet has become an immoral and filthy den of sinners. I know I’m a sinner, but I don’t WANT to sin. The world is going to end soon, I just know it. I’ll keep you all in my prayers, hoping that you come to Christ and surrender your hearts to Him. When we are in times of despair only He can give us comfort.
1 Peter 1:13 – Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1 Corinthians 15:19 – If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
1 Peter 1:3 – … In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Isaiah 40:31 – but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 13:07:51
The bible is jam packed with contradictions. That said, it does say pretty clearly:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Mar 14, 2011 @ 13:30:56
Leviticus is always there to back the Atheists up.
Three cheers for Leviticus!
Mar 14, 2011 @ 13:48:03
Hip Hip! Hoo- +gets hit with big fucking rocks+
Mar 14, 2011 @ 14:17:29
Again, God does not hate gay people. He loves them so much that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life.
You cannot, however, enter the Kingdom of God while refusing to repent (which means turning away from your former way), anymore than a bank robber can continue to rob banks, an embezzler can continue to steal, or an adulterer can continue to commit adultery. Following Christ is about control and restraint — as Paul put it, dying to self daily. That means if you love God you obey Him, even if it means giving up things you like.
And God DID NOT choose for anyone to be a homosexual.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 17:30:57
G;
If God loves us so much, why did he impute one man’s only sin, onto the rest of us for eternity ?
Then, need a human sacrifice to forgive us.
But, not so fast, turns out that we’re not forgiven after all.
We’re still lousy, wicked dirty little humans until we convince ourselves that we’re saved.
It seems that God lost his penchant for the blood of goats?
I think THAT, was a more secure bet.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 19:27:42
Yeah the vicarious redemption bit is where it stops for me.
If you admitted to me that you killed someone, I could certainly go to the cops, turn myself in in your stead and serve your life sentence (or die in the electric chair) for you, but my action would not erase your dirty deed, nor take away your guilt. It would not bring the person you killed back to life either. The idea that God would have such immense and cruel suffering rain down on an innocent individual as a form of “justice” for a crime committed is one thing, but his own self personified as his only human Son?
What Christian’s don’t understand is that this is not a beautiful thing by any stretch. It’s an incredibly grotesque, cruel and capricious application of justice for wrong doing. Crucifying a completely innocent person for the sins of others distorts and perverts any and all structures of justice that we have. If we are all sinners deserving the death penalty PLUS eternal damnation and suffering in hell, then why confuse things further by punishing one innocent person or a million innocents?
God should just deploy his extreme form of justice and be done with the matter. Creating this elaborate, sanctimonious system of exceptions and dogma, were it true,is colossal waste of celestial time. Lastly, millions of people were born, lived and died not knowing one iota of the story of Jesus nor it’s implications to their lives. They were not aware of the requirement to be “save” vicariously by a neolithic carpenter. Did those millions get a free pass, or a last second crash course (Jesus 101) just before passing through the pearly gates?
Mar 14, 2011 @ 14:52:50
Matthew 10:32-39:
“32 ‘Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; 33but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.
Not Peace, but a Sword
34 ‘Do …not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household.
37Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.”
He sounds real loving in these passages. HE wants to split households and HE wants not to bring peace to the earth but a sword. I guess peace is the job of the atheist. It is also worth noting that I copied this from an argument that a christian was trying to make in support of the quote by Richard Bonnke “My definition for atheism: INTELLECTUAL VANDALISM. “The fool has said in his heart, ‘there is no God’” (Psalm 14, 1)” Another quote that makes no sense. I do not think that the atheists are the ones filling minds with useless information that tries to persuade people into a single mode of thinking.
Mar 14, 2011 @ 20:20:17
If “G” still thinks that God loves everybody, he needs to read Deuteronomy 28;
“Curses for disobedience ”
Deut. 28:22 The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish.”
26Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
There’s more !
Read all of Deut. 28. Can’t you feel the Love ?
Mar 15, 2011 @ 00:50:47
You too, show a critical misunderstanding of God’s Word. Sadly skeptics will point out every little “flaw” to God’s immaculate and limitless personality and say “Look! He hates us now! Maybe He’s not so great now, is he!?!” The problem here is that skeptics don’t bother to read the entire stories and instead prefer to nitpick certain verses to “prove” a point. What point are you trying to prove?
Anyways, time to disprove your points.
Read this:
http://wikichristian.org/index.php/Apologetics:_Deuteronomy_13.6-9
Seriously you atheists are as dumb as a pickle.
Mar 15, 2011 @ 06:41:29
Mr. VGG73AP;
I really am sorry if my “take” on Christianity offended you, but remember, you came here to us and not we to you.
Also, in all fairness, I admit that I find YOUR religion intellectually and morally offensive.
To think that I could once, spill the blood of an animal to take responsibility for my sins.
Would that work in a court of law today?
Let’s see, once we remove all the “tap dancing” from our topic,
What do we have?
What is the penalty for homosexuality ? Death. lev 20:13
What is the penalty for cursing your parents ? Death. ex 21:15
What is the penalty for worshiping other gods? Death. ex 22:20
What is the penalty for adultery? Death. lev 20:10
What is the penalty for working on the Sabbath? Death. ex 35:2
What is the penalty for anyone who blasphemes God? Death. lev 24:16
What is the penalty for a capital offense? Death. deut 21:22
What is the penalty for being a first born
child or animal in a land that holds the
Israelites captive? Death. ex 11:5
Hopefully, if you’ve ever worked on a Sunday, you were able to avoid having more than 2 men witnesing
this.
Mar 15, 2011 @ 00:46:16
“He sounds real loving in these passages. HE wants to split households and HE wants not to bring peace to the earth but a sword. I guess peace is the job of the atheist.”
You don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re taking all those verses out of context, as if God is directly speaking to all people and not just the evil and the wicked He is punishing. Would you honor a judge who lets murderers, rapists, burglars, etc. free and without punishment? NO! This is why God judged those people for their wicked ways. Man would become so independent and so full of pride that he would only think for himself. God wants us all to love one another.
As for the Peace vs. Sword argument help yourself to some quality reading:
http://carm.org/did-jesus-come-to-bring-peace-or-not
“I do not think that the atheists are the ones filling minds with useless information that tries to persuade people into a single mode of thinking.”
That’s an absurd charge against true Christians. We are not the ones filling our minds with useless information; those who claim to be “open minded” are. We love hearing what others have to say, even though they don’t have a true grasp of Christianity. The naysayers who attack and badmouth our God are the evil ones. It is cold-hearted atheist fools like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens who attack the beliefs of others by shoving it in their faces. Why not just leave us alone? I understand there are harsh people that *claim* to be “Christian”. They’re not. They are fakes and deceivers being used by the Devil.
I’,m having a hard time trying to understand just WHY people think that atheism makes for a more peaceful person? How do you get hope? If you suffered a near-death experience I’d like to know how many of you would call upon God for help? Only He is going to help you, not man. God wants to be a part of our lives.
Mar 16, 2011 @ 11:49:36
If your argument about the verses in the bible being taken out of context then why do you try to interpret any of them literally? That was a book written by multiple people over a period of hundreds of years over a thousand years ago. The original context of those words no longer applies to modern society, not to mention multiple translations. If people want to believe in a higher power(s) then that is fine with me as long as everyone is allowed to believe what they want and be themselves. I come from a small town in Tennessee that is as conservative christian as it can get. There everyone calls themselves a christian and if you are gay, atheist, agnostic or anything else the bible labels as foolish or wrong then you are an outcast. Are entire communities like these under the spell of the devil?
“I’,m having a hard time trying to understand just WHY people think that atheism makes for a more peaceful person? How do you get hope? If you suffered a near-death experience I’d like to know how many of you would call upon God for help? Only He is going to help you, not man. God wants to be a part of our lives.”
Let me provide my opinion on these questions. As for peace I believe in preserving life because it is the only one we get. No war, no murder, no killing because separating someone from life is to end their entire existence. I do not think that in death they will become immortal and therefore I believe that the death penalty is wrong, that war should be avoided at all costs and murder is an abomination to life. I need no book to tell me that death is absolute and to bring it upon another person is bad. As for a near-death experience I would learn from it. Learn not to do it again and to enjoy the life I have. God wants to teach me a lesson by killing me? Would you teach a kid that electricity is dangerous by sticking his finger in a light socket? I believe we should all help one another. At the end of the day it is a person who holds the door open for someone who needs it, it is a person who donates time and money to charity, it is a person who performs life-saving surgery, a person who donated a kidney/bone marrow/etc. If you rely only on god to help you then do not use medicine or attend hospitals. Those are places where science and reason save lives…not god.
Mar 16, 2011 @ 12:07:22
Oh and the hope question. I get hope from knowing that when I wake up every day I have an opportunity to live. I get to hold the door open for people, eat pizza, play video games, read and all of the other wonderful things that exist. I love my wife and hope to reproduce so that I may help bring new life into the world. Your hope comes only from being told you are immortal? It is not enough to want to live? To want to help one another? To pass on your genes to your children and help them grow up? I will welcome the day when I get to read, eat, and play video games with my son/daughter. I already enjoy seeing the looks on the faces of my nieces and nephews. They do not need god to wake up every day to be happy. They are content with existence…like me.
Mar 17, 2011 @ 14:24:57
Do I hear bagpipes? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman)
As for why atheists are more peaceful people (although that should perhaps be more peace-loving), for me it’s because I don’t have to rely on anyone else (or anything else – like a god) for my happiness.
Mar 17, 2011 @ 14:34:01
haha, that’s a great link.
i’ve always heard the whole “muslims aren’t violent, anyone who is violent isn’t a *real* muslim” claim over and over… it’s very tiring. ;)
Mar 17, 2011 @ 23:03:59
um.
why did you even put up that link? there are true and there are false people in every group and sub-culture. a *true* christian does what a christian is supposed to do: FOLLOW the bible and try to be more christ-like such as resisting the temptation of sin(even though we sometimes fall off, we get back on our feet), giving to charities, helping your neighbor, LOVING and PRAYING *FOR* your enemy instead of HATING them (you atheists spout lots of anger and cuss words at *us*, especially those who have meant no harm to you! how does that make you any more moral than us?), not stealing, many moral things that christ taught us. jesus is there to comfort and guide those who have led troublesome lives. we all have problems, jesus wants to show you the way to a better life.
just because someone claims to be a christian or muslim doesn’t mean they actually are. it’s like saying you’re a musician yet you don’t know how to play a single instrument. how would that still count you as a musician if you can’t do anything that musicians do: play/sing?
not the most impressive analogy but anyone with a brain can see that. people can claim to be one thing but they can also contradict their own positions. i’m simply a christian (i am not holier-than-thou) who is trying to live his life to the fullest. i believe christ is the only path to happiness. christianity is also more community bonding than say, atheism… where do atheists meet up? do they have their own “church” or initial place for gathering? religion helps give people meaning in life. it’s quite hard to find a meaning when you simply lack a belief in every religion out there. jesus gives us a meaning in life. muhammad gives muslims a meaning in life. etc.
Mar 18, 2011 @ 15:53:00
@Ben
Although it’s rare (in my experience) to see, hear, or read of an atheist who “spouts lots of anger and cuss words” at Christians, I guess it happens. But it’s generally nowhere like the amount of vitriol spouted at atheists by True Christians (TM). But perhaps my view is biased because I almost never go to Christian blogs, but I do visit atheist blogs, where Christians come to curse us for the baby-eating heathens that we are.
However, atheists do get frustrated by Christians. This is often because those Christians tend to come out with the same tired old arguments that have been refuted countless times in the past. But then a newbie comes along and repeats what he’s (just) heard in church. That we’ve heard many times before. And refuted.
Another reason for frustration is when an atheist asks a Christian to explain a certain bible passage, and that Christian refuses to read what the bible actually says, preferring instead to explain what they think (or have been told) it says.
So perhaps we do shout at Christians sometimes. Not out of hate, but out of frustration that Christians aren’t interested in a proper discussion (despite what they may say). The Christians stick to their dogma and fairy stories. All we ask is that Christians start to try and think for themselves – examine their own holy book and see what it really says.
As for where we meet – well, anywhere. We’re not limited to being together in a church.
And if you really wonder why I posted the link, then I’d suggest you keep your ears open for the number of times you hear “oh, he’s not a real Christian…” from the people in your church – especially when talking about someone they disagree with, be it a famous evangelist or a person in the same church.
Anyway, that was way too long. I’m off for a glass of champagne. Have a great weekend.
Mar 18, 2011 @ 03:31:14
It’s not atheism that makes for a more peaceful person — everyone is different, so it varies depending on a person’s background in contrast with another. For example, let’s use a number system (1 is for least peaceful and 10 is for most peaceful):
“Person A” is said to be very peaceful, with an 8. He gets compared to “Person B,” whose number is 10 (he is extremely peaceful). “Person A” is then compared to “Person C,” whose number is 6 (he is moderately peaceful). Often, “Person C” starts feeling a bit of distress here and there, but overall he’s still a peaceful person. Now take “Person C” and compare him to “Person D,” whose number is 2 (he is not a very peaceful person). By comparison, “Person C” seems very peaceful, compared to “Person D.”
What I’m trying to say here is that it just varies between one person and another to “measure up” how “peaceful” someone is. I don’t doubt the fact that there are Christians who are more peaceful than outsiders. Again, it’s not the religion or god but rather the person himself/herself. If believing in a god makes one person more peaceful, then so be it. If not believing in a god makes one person more peaceful, then there’s a problem there; they should go after what THEY want, not what others want.
Anyway, I feel that I should respond to your questions:
1. We all need a little bit of hope here and there to make it through the days of our lives. However, much like peace, it varies on what factors contribute to giving you hope. Some argue that a new video game released by a talented video game company gives them hope. Others argue that seeing their spouses and children picking them up at work for dinner gives them hope. There are so many things that give us hope, but it depends on the person. Sometimes there are things that don’t give some people hope, such as the death of a loved one. Sometimes there may be people who feel hopeful when something bad happens to another person. Should we just get up and point fingers at them, saying that they have a sick mind and/or are just hurtful people? No — because like I said, it varies from one person to another. One sees “good” as “evil,” whereas another sees “evil” as “good.” We cherry pick what makes us happy and discard the rest as unwanted in our lives.
2. People have their own personal problems with the god(s) they grew up believing in. I do see the purpose of a caring, loving deity looking after you but it’s nothing more than absolute metaphors. These things are for helping people without hope or peace to finally “feel” some sort of hope and peace. It’s weird, isn’t it? These things do not exist, yet they are so much like us. These are human inventions, made to only be comprehended by human beings. We are responsible for creating these things, which is like any form of Art, really. Therefore, while a near-death experience doesn’t prove that a god exists it at least helps those who are emotional and weak to feel the *NEED* to cling onto someone or something — they want you and they need you to be by their side in dark times of despair. Just like anyone suffering from a disease needing close family support in their deathbeds. I think this is why religion can help many people who need it. It’s not really about proving that a god exists but that there is a sense of belonging, a sense of feeling secure.
That’s all I have to say, really.
Mar 15, 2011 @ 05:55:15
ONE FACT: Christ, not atheism, Is responsible for changing more people for the good than any other person who as ever lived.
One example is in the jailing system. People who are “born again” in jail have a much much much lower chance of finding themselvs back again. Another is in divorce rates. Couples who pray together every day have a 3% chance of getting divorced verses a 49% if not… It can’t be rationally denied by sane men.
People talk about the crusades as Christs fault, seems like. So I ask a question. Was the Pope Christ or is he just the Pope. “He who lives by the sword dies by the sword” and “He who has not sinned, may cast the first stone” are beautiful…Truth…
I will not attack. I don’t wish to hurt people with my words or my fists. Because of this people see me as to kind and weak. I ask, dose it take more strength to attack or to make peace, to lie or tell the truth, to be prideful of to humble one’s self.
I ask, what side is of this argument possesses more people trying to make peace with the other and what side uses the most verbal violence with intent of hate… The answers to these two questions will tell us who is under control and who is not. Who is truly strong and who is not.
Lets grow up people. Set aside the angle and the animal.
(In the name of Jesus, save the one God. Let him who has ears to hear let him hear)
Mar 15, 2011 @ 08:22:40
“One example is in the jailing system. People who are “born again” in jail have a much much much lower chance of finding themselvs back again. Another is in divorce rates. Couples who pray together every day have a 3% chance of getting divorced verses a 49% if not… It can’t be rationally denied by sane men.”
I trust you have sources to back the numbers up.
“I ask, what side is of this argument possesses more people trying to make peace with the other and what side uses the most verbal violence with intent of hate…”
I’m not sure I read that right, but if I did, then religion gives people another reason to kill each other. Atheism would seem to take that reason away, leading to less people killed in the name of a fairy tale. Which is more good?
Mar 15, 2011 @ 10:45:42
>Couples who pray together every day have a 3% chance of getting divorced verses a 49% if not… It can’t be rationally denied by sane men.
Lol, what a crock of shit. I’d love to see the source on that bullshit claim. Divorce rates are highest in states where “conservative values” are the highest (eg, the red states).
Mar 16, 2011 @ 06:52:09
The following is data from the Barna Research Group, http://www.barna.org/ ;
Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 3 It was based on interviews of 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The sampling error is within 2 percentage points. The survey found:
Divorce rates among born-again Christians were much higher at 27 percent than for other Christian faith groups.
Atheists and Agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all: 21 percent.
“Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians,” Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/
Mar 16, 2011 @ 11:54:36
I saw some statistics on divorce and atheists/agnostics had the lowest divorce rates. Perhaps instead of praying for their marriage to be saved they go to counseling, or better yet, talk to each other.
Mar 17, 2011 @ 14:26:46
Where is your source for this rather strange assertion?
Mar 18, 2011 @ 02:59:19
Sorry, but I stopped reading right after that.
Mar 21, 2011 @ 06:50:09
The Lord never actually said; “I hate gays”. He just thinks that they all should be killed.
Leviticus 20:13
“‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
(as Ian already pointed out in an earlier post)
Apr 13, 2011 @ 13:33:05
i don’t think mr casey read any of your comments. you see, when we verbally abuse people online, we’re automatically “stronger” which correlated directly to us being wrong…right casey?