Greenworld’s Thoughts

Irreligious Logic vs. Religious Logic

5 Comments

I’m so sick and tired of arguing with religious fanatics across the Internet. Why do they resort to such deluded thinking? Here is a pre-written example of how debates usually start and end whenever I start one with a believer:

Skeptic: Cancers and other diseases are terrible. Why do they even exist?

Believer: It’s because of The Devil.

Skeptic: And why doesn’t Yahweh know about this?

Believer: He does — it’s just that He gave us free will.

Skeptic: So… we can choose what kinds of diseases to acquire if we wanted to? Are you suggesting that people “choose” to acquire diseases? That doesn’t sound very logical…

Believer: NO!!! You don’t get it!!! God gave us free will and Man perverted His creations by eating from the Tree of Life!!!

Skeptic: OK, then how come Yahweh isn’t doing anything to prevent “The Devil” from causing diseases?

Believer: AGAIN — it’s because He gave US free will! We chose to sin and this is our penalty for breaking His rules. God can do anything He wants, you know.

Skeptic: Sorry, but I believe Yahweh was supposed to be “omniscient” and “omnipotent,” correct? An omniscient deity is a deity that is supposed to have infinite knowledge beyond time and space. An omnipotent deity is a deity that is supposed to have an unlimited amount of universal power and authority. That said, if Yahweh is argued to be both an “omniscient” and “omnipotent” deity, doesn’t it make you wonder why Yahweh isn’t really doing anything to prevent “The Devil” from causing all the negativity in this world? By the way, animals and plants also can have diseases of their own — does this mean that there are “devils” for animals and plants, as well as “gods” for animals and plants? I don’t seem to understand where you are going with this.

Believer: *Rolls eyes* Seriously, atheist! You just don’t understand God or His Word! He works in MYSTERIOUS WAYS! Animals don’t have souls because we humans are the chosen ones! Humans and animals have NOTHING in common!

Skeptic: First, nowhere did I ever mention that I am an atheist; what I may or may not believe is irrelevant to this debate. Merely, I am questioning your position and reasoning for it. Second, I don’t see why you’re pulling the “You just don’t understand!” card while at the same time claiming to have knowledge of the mind of your deity. Third, how do you know that we humans have nothing to do with other animals such as apes, for instance? Are we not mammals? Don’t both species share likeness in body structure, personality, reasoning skills, etc.? We, just like the apes, are warm-blooded and have genitals that we use for mating with the opposite sex so that the female may bear one or more offspring. Females feed their young just like other female mammals do. Isn’t that what other female mammals do? The fact that we humans are warm-blooded vertebrate animals that have genitals (which are used for reproducing new life) and that our females carry milk to feed our young is a no-brainer that we DO in fact belong under the classification of mammalians. What do you have to say to these points?

Believer: *Rolls eyes again* Well… YOU have NO BRAIN! Seriously, you’re just an evolutionist trying to lure me into the path of unrighteousness so that I too may burn in Hell for all eternity with you… you… you… HEATHENS! You hate God! The Devil is making you say all these things because he knows that you are allowing him to come in and ruin your life! You need Jesus! Jesus died for us!

Skeptic: Wow, you need to remain civil. You are getting nowhere in this debate if all you’re going to do is brand me as a “heretic.” Seriously, this is the 21st century — more and more people to this day are coming to a realization that Christianity and Islam are simply archaic, primitive belief systems and that there are better attempts to explain how the universe works and why we exist that don‘t necessarily rely on most religions. For example, the Bible makes claims of such ridiculous things such as humans being able to live for 500+ years, an old man single-handedly building a boat and packing hordes of animals (all of which he was said to have captured by himself) on it to survive a 40-day flood, a rib-woman conversing with a talking serpent (to add insult to the injury, absolutely NO mention of “The Devil” possessing the animal is to be found — not even in the highly-acclaimed King James Bible), sticks turning into snakes, a man whose physical strength was equivalent to the length of his hair, and so many others. It really is a surprise to me that there are people who still take these stories in a literal sense. Come now, none of these things have ever been supported by science. Oh wait, science is controlled by “The Devil.”

Believer: Ha, ha! You have no idea what you’re talking about, evolutionist atheist! All these stories are PROVEN and HISTORICAL accounts as recorded in the Bible! We still believe in God because we don’t want to go to Hell! You do! And yes, science IS now controlled by The Devil and he started a religion called Darwinism. Sound familiar?

Skeptic: Look. If I told you that a unicorn was hiding in my backyard, would you trust me? If not, then why? What if I also told you that you have to believe in the “Unicorn God” in order to be saved? Wouldn’t that sound ridiculous to you? Of course it would! There is no validity to such an absurd claim, neither yours of how this world was created from Christianity’s perspective.

Believer: That’s because you don’t know Jesus. Once you know Him, you never go back!

Skeptic: …Except I used to have a belief in Christianity but I no longer possess it.

Believer: YOU NEVER WERE A TRUE CHRISTIAN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

Skeptic: Who are you to judge? I thought only Yahweh (and ONLY Yahweh) could judge us (if this particular deity DOES exist)? Doesn’t your book say that only those who may cast the first stone are the ones who never “sinned”?

Believer: Again, this is The Devil reaching out to you and feeding you lies so you can go and mock God! And stop calling Him ‘Yahweh’! There is only one TRUE God!

Skeptic: OK, I have to admit: I worship “The Devil” every night and I eat shellfish twice a week. Yes, I am mocking Yahweh.

Believer: *Smile* That’s more like it. So you admit you are possessed by The Devil! However, you can change! Come to my church! It’s the one TRUE church!

Skeptic: That would be LaVeyan.

Believer: FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

I have come to a realization that arguing with religious people about religion is a total waste of time. However, it is fun to stir the pot with the faithful whenever irreligious people correct them on their misused logic! Still, I am of the position that there are better things to do than get involved with religious debates. I have a life, and I can’t be expected to debate blind sheep 24/7. The difference between me and them is that I make a living for myself by being fully focused on REALITY and they make a living wasting their lives with such outdated and unscientific philosophies. We only get one life — don’t waste it away on things that have already been proven false by science and most of all — logic.

Cuss Words vs. Threats of Burning in Hell

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Cuss Words vs. Threats of Burning in Hell

by Greenworld

Being an atheist/skeptic for a few years, I have noticed many Christians complaining about atheists using profanity and sometimes wishing death on them. At first, it may seem like atheists are really cold-hearted, cruel people. And when you develop that sort of thinking you start to feel sorry for the Christians getting insulted by atheists day and night. This is a feeling of pity; Christians like to point out the actions of one atheist and assume that by definition most atheists are rude and that the Christians themselves instead are actually decent-minded people who speak in a clear voice, thanks to their humble faith and obedience to the words of Jesus Christ.

However, this is nothing but a way for Christians to trick others into thinking much like they do. When you are competing against someone in an argument, you always try your best to look good and convincing while exposing your opponents’ flaws as much as possible. The way I see it, many of these Christians that attempt to do this are assuming that they are better than atheists, simply because they believe in a god. Unfortunately, this is far from the truth.

To be quite honest, it’s unfair to label atheists as “immature” or “rude,” when Christians clearly have flaws of their own as well (not to mention that Christians also resort to using cuss words and make death threats themselves too!).

First off, let me just say that while there are atheists like that around the Internet, the words and actions of one atheist do not change the fact that atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god. The angrier atheists out there most likely had a history of problems regarding Christianity (after all, most people who became atheists at some point in their lives were once believers). Everyone who has had problems with Christianity has had their own unique kinds: one may have discarded Christianity instantly because he felt like he was being lied to, that he wasn’t convinced of Yahweh‘s existence; another may have had long years of frustration with their faith but desperately held on to his belief because of how his family might react if he were to come out and proclaim his lack of faith. Heck, even people who have been sexually abused have left the fold and became atheists or something equivalent. I would bet that most people left also because of the thought of them or a loved one burning in hell.

If my kids broke something in my house, I would have a heart and forgive them, because I would love them no matter what they do. Of course, I would ground them or make them do extra chores, but this is a far cry compared to burning in the literal Christian hell without a time limit.If you look at the way Christianity works, from a highly-sensitive person’s point of view, you would have freaked out and start having lots of paranoid delusions. There have been nights where I all of a sudden would jump out of bed and feel my heart beating fast (like I was drinking coffee or something) because of hell. Since I had left Christianity, I felt very afraid of the thought of unexpectedly dying without Christ in my life and seeing myself being tossed into the lake of fire by a very loving, generous god. Just thinking about that makes me despise him with a passion. And yet, Christians are crying about us skeptics using foul language? So what? That’s nothing compared to threatening any sensitive person with such a concept as hell.

Do you have ANY idea how traumatizing that can be to an emotional person? It’s probably even scarier than losing a loved one, because you would be cowering in fear, believing that you will be suffering for all eternity and no one (not even Yahweh) will come by and see you again. That’s just horrible, isn’t it? And yet Christians claim that Yahweh is such a loving god. Why won’t Yahweh forgive us — even after death? If we can’t apologize in the afterlife for our unforgiving sins, then that means there will be no free will in heaven or hell. With that said, it pretty much contradicts Yahweh’s love for all humanity. If my kids broke something in my house, I would have a heart and forgive them, because I would love them no matter what they do. Of course, I would ground them or make them do extra chores, but this is a far cry compared to burning in the literal Christian hell without a time limit.

It’s kind of like this:
You’re a secular humanist who does charity work in Africa, helping build bridges and homes for those who have little to no resources to take care of themselves. However, an earthquake strikes the village you’re in and you die as a result. Assuming Christianity is true, you would be seen facing Yahweh, being told that you are not worthy of joining him in his kingdom and instead cast down into the fiery pits of hell. Why? Because you didn’t believe in him at the time you died. You chose to be “materialistic” and thus you are now forced to go through excruciating pain forever and ever. And while this happens, murderers and rapists who have turned their lives around for Christ are given the free pass to heaven. I know I keep using this example a lot, but it shows you just how awful the threats of Christianity are to those who are sensitive about their own personal beliefs in contrast with what Christians believe.

So, with that said, which do you find to be harsher? Saying the words “fuck” or “asshole” to someone in an argument or being told that you are worthless without Christ and deserve to burn in hell? Of course, regardless of hell’s actual existence, it’s still a pretty disturbing threat. It’s meant to control peoples’ thoughts and actions. I have no respect for anyone who threatens or simply “warns” me of eternal hellfire if I don’t come to Christ, and thus I will tell them to fuck off and go die in a fire. Rude? Yes. Immature? Yes. But is it more offensive than telling people they’re going to go to hell? No. I’m sick and tired of hearing Christians repeat over and over again about how we’re so mean and cruel to them. Well… you know what? That’s because we have been through lots of hard times thanks to your hateful religion’s bigotry. We have been told how we’re worthless unless we come to Christ, that if we live a certain lifestyle or practice a form of sexuality then we’re not worth the love of your supposedly loving god. That’s why we cuss at you.

We’re fed up with being called evil people. We’re not. Our lack of belief in YOUR god has nothing to do with how we act towards insensitive people such as yourselves. It is people like YOU that make us feel useless and miserable. We are angry at YOU because of this. Many of us have decided to rebel against your religion for what your god’s blind sheep has done to them. We don’t condone violence, but we still tell plenty of you to go and die when you say such ignorant and hateful things like how homosexuals are inferior to heterosexuals or how someone with a harsh disease deserved it because of their lack of belief in YOUR god. This is why we don’t respect your kind that much. It’s because you try and brainwash thousands of little children every Sunday morning, telling them that a big man in the sky exists and will punish anyone who doesn’t believe in him. And when they grow up they will continue to pass along the genes of stupidity and multiply like viruses.

It’s just heart-wrenching to me to see how Christianity can destroy so many peoples’ minds like that. Most Christians are afraid of questioning their own god because of the fear of eternal damnation. It’s all set there in case someone tries to reason with their god. Well all I can say is that I want no fucking part in this fucked-up lifestyle. Yes, Christian, I just said the word “fuck” twice. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to tell me I have no morals and that I’m probably a liberal and voted for Obama? How about you stay the FUCK away from my life and go make something of yourself instead? Why not just leave me alone? I’m well aware of the bullshit your religion preaches; I’ve heard it all a million times. Quit wasting my time and let me make something of my life, you self-righteous twat.

Stop telling others how to live their lives just because they don’t share the same philosophy as you do. I would rather have no god to comfort me in times of need than get involved with this bullshit any longer. Christianity is a crutch to society and must be stopped. This is why I and so many atheists are very hostile towards your loving religion. All I can say is that I DO have morals and I DO enjoy my life. I love having freedom from a world of fairy tales!

Your threat of heretics burning in hell, dear Christian, is like someone telling me Santa Claus won’t deliver any presents this Christmas. Keep your bullshit religion away from us, we have had enough. And to all crybabies claiming that Christianity is dying, no it isn’t. Christianity is alive and well. So, Christians, go back to your nest and leave the sensitive people out of this. Your ignorance of reality and arrogance towards us makes you no better, so stop claiming all this “True Christian TM” bullshit before I tell you off about how Christians aren’t supposed to judge others as IF they’re *better* than them. Let your god do the judging (if he even exists).

Finally, Christian, if there’s any consolation to this, it’s that no matter how much you try to convince me that hell is real and that I’m going there, you still have to deal with the threats of hell as announced in religions like Islam and Hinduism. The following link contains scriptures that also condemn Christians to hell for believing in the wrong god: https://irreligion.org/2011/02/17/christians-are-going-to-burn-in-hell/

And with that, thanks to all that managed to read all this. It made me feel much better about myself. And to all the sensitive people out there who feel the same as I do: don’t let these childish threats of burning in hell get the best of you! Know for a fact that once we die, that’s it. Consciousness ends with death. Think of it as a long, deep slumber! With that said, there is your motivation to live a long, meaningful life. It really is beautiful, especially without religion interfering. Wake up and smell the fresh air!

Evil? Where Does Such a Thing Come From?

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Evil? Where Does Such a Thing Come From?

by Greenworld

This is what Christians are afraid of spending the rest of eternity with.

It never ceases to amuse me just how apologists like to use the “vacuum analogy” when responding to the statement that if evil is caused by “The Devil,” and “The Devil” came from Yahweh, then Yahweh certainly allowed “evil” to exist. (Oh, but wait: if there was no “evil” then we’d all be ROBOTS!!!) Do you really think that belief in “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident” would prevent us from being “robots”…?

No. Incorrect. “Evil” comes from nature; animals always display this “evil” that religious fanatics spew about because in nature it is all a matter of life and death through survival: the strong shall prevail and reproduce as the weak perish like mosquitoes. For other animals to cause “evil” they would need a “Devil” to represent their enemy, which Christianity has failed to provide. Therefore, these animals are “robots,” even though they share emotions alike ourselves. What’s the difference, other than threats of “burning in Hell” with “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident”?

As humans, we have been “evil” long before religions came around because we desired (and still do) the power of superiority; this has nothing to do with “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident” because humans are capable of showing different emotions and personalities.We are “evil” because we want to win the fight and not lose — and what could be wrong with that? It just shows that the desire for power and recognition is a GOAL in life; we want to apply a meaning to each and everyone of us because life is what we make it out to be.

Now, tell me how “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident” has ANYTHING to do with why we experience these emotions? Honestly, I’m very fucking glad we do; we feel better about ourselves by putting down those who also put us down. What’s wrong with that? Why can’t we experience these natural emotions? If Yahweh wants us to adore him, then why the need for “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident” in the first place?

The “but otherwise we’d be robots!” argument is a silly one because nature has shown us that non-human animal lifeforms TOO display these emotions. Try cuddling a pet dog and watch the other one whimper or rage in jealousy over the other — this is also possible with humans. So, why must these animals be fortunate enough to share emotions that us humans would be prosecuted for? I find religion to be quite an ironic world. And no, Christianity is no more a thing of “non-religious faith” than Islam is “just some religion” (in the eyes of Christian fundamentalists). In fact, both religious share similar traits of violence, pedophilia, incest, misogyny, hatred of homosexuals (the people who “chose” to be attracted to the same sex one day while waking up), and many more. How can religion look so “good” when all these flaws are present?

To conclude, again I shall say that “evil” being caused by “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident” is nothing more than a figment of your imagination caused by fear (much like the phobia of sleeping in the dark without a nightlight). And it is this “fear” that continues to grow and expand by word of mouth. Savages harvest on this “fear” by telling their children that if they do not believe in Yahweh (or some other sky fairy) then they will be spending the rest of their lives with “some red guy with an arrow-pointed tail carrying a silly little trident.”

Christianity is purely pathetic. Maybe it’s time more people open their eyes and look around them; this world is not perfect and life is what each and everyone of us makes it out to be, whether we want to live a life of “evil” (such as participating in the Gay Pride Parades or a therapist convincing a troubled believer that fearing a “loving” deity like Yahweh is completely irrational) or believe in this heap of garbage. You choose how you want to live. Not me. And you can’t tell me what I should do with my life, so fuck off.